I understand you can't mention exact products. My response was the surprise I had when I read that for a 2%/yr fee the client gets to clip all negative year returns. This makes no sense to me. 2008 was -37%. The company issuing would not profit by taking 2%/yr to absorb this kind of loss. The income streams you mentioned make sense, as they seem coser to immediate annuity rates. It's Kastna's original numbers I really question.