I will be graduating this coming May with my bachelor's in Accounting from a fairly decent university/business school, (I already have an associates in Business Administration).
My question is this:
I do not have much accounting experince since I've never done an internship.
My overall GPA is a 3.6 with an accounting GPA of around 3.8.
I'm a hard worker and I'm very dedicated. I do plan on getting my CPA but not as fast as some of the Big 4 want students to get them.
I'd like to get my masters and then go for the big test instead of just really pushing myself to get the 150 credits and try for the CPA test right away. (it actually intimdates me a bit)
so because of that, I chose not to apply for interviews with any of the Big
4 and would like to stay with the smaller regional firms.
The average starting salary for Entry Level Accountants for my graduating class is around $43,000/year
If asked, what should I ask for? I'm thinking of staying on the average because I feel as though I am a competent individual and the average salary is fair. However since I'll be applying to the smaller firms I'm not sure if my reasoning is right.
I've heard from some that the smaller firms actually offer more and will pay more because they are comepeting with the bigger firms but I've also heard that because they are smaller they pay less due to limited resources.
I know that in the long-run pay isn't everything and that there are many other factors in deciding wether or not to work/stay with company but since I'm just starting out, pay is mainly on top of my priority lists.
If anyone has any input I'd appreciate this, I'll most likely be posting more often in this newgroup now that my graduation date is near.
It's going to depend on a lot of variables. Begin by asking some of the local recent graduates what the going rates are. It will vary from area to area, and in a particular area, among firms. If you are concerned about shooting down a job offer, ask what they have budgeted for the position (ie: what they have in mind as far as salary and benefits). If you say "$43,000" and they are thinking around $30,000, you've just placed yourself out of a job offer. On the other hand, if they say "$30,000" then you get to decide to turn it down, or negotiate a better entry salary, or ask about increases in pay, etc.
Remember that no matter where you work, you'll have to learn the position from scratch. You have no experiences, which is both good and bad, to offer the company.
Initially, I suppose that is the only issue, because you haven't yet had the opportunity to learn about office politics and the like. Since you haven't inturned, you probably don't have a clue as to what area of practice you prefer, which is a much bigger factor for many than straight salary, along with hours, travel, etc.
Talk among your fellow classmates, as well as any recent grads that you can contact to see what the real-deal is.
Also remember that if you learn well, and are a good asset for the company you end up with, they'll do right by you.
Paul definitely has good advice. Speaking from experience, however, it would be good to get your CPA as soon as you can, if you think you will definitely get it eventually. I speak from experience. I graduated with my masters and between working busy seasons and wanting to have a life, I didn't study for the test enough and it just frusterated me. Now, I'm 29, I have no life for the next five months because I am determined to get this test behind me. Since I've been out of school for about 6 years, I'm really having to relearn a bit of the material.
No matter what you do, public accounting experience at any level is great for your resume and leads to a very general business knowledge that they can't really teach in school. The experience alone has enabled me to excel over my peers who went straight into private practice. Now if I could just pass this test!!!
I would second this advice as an engineer who put off the E(ngineer) In T(raining) and PE (Professional Engineer) exams. Made it much more of a pita to relearn those areas which were by the time I did rusty.
Do whatever is the appropriate professional certification ASAP.
I am 22 now and when I graduate I will be 23. I definitely have plans to sit for the CPA exam, just not when I'm still 23 like the big firms want me to.
I'd like to finish up the masters and hopefully go for the CPA exam the next year feeling somewhat confident.
I deffinately won't wait for a very long time because I uderstand what you mean by having to relearn everything.
If you're going to get your masters, many schools will offer (and give credit for) a CPA review course taught at the university. This sounds like a good option for you, too. Take it your last semester before sitting for the exam so it's fresh on your mind. Good luck!
Well, I for one like the smaller town I'm in. Believe it or not, I do work with investment bankers from New York and Charlotte, and yes, they do make the money. The head of the financing group we work with took a month-long vacation and went sailing from Spain to New York.
I just don't think I'd like to work in the Big Apple or even Chicago.
your problem is that you think of working in New York as a "permanent" thing. Hey, after 5 years of new york banking, you can retire with your $5 mil to a small town and do whatever you want. but if you are a cpa in a small town, after
You make it sound so simple. :) Of course, to make $250K, you are going to be competing with the Harvards, Whartons, and other extremely competitive people who think about complex financial matters really in a different way than accountants generally think about things. ... in general , at least.. So, my point is, while with hard work almost anyone could be an accountant, it's much more difficult to go compete with the big boys and be a top investment banker.
Unless you work with them already ;) In general though, from what I've seen, investment banking is more competitive and cut throat than accounting/finance type jobs. Not knocking it, the investment bankers I work with are fairly shard individuals, although I would say that their analysts aren't. I work with investment bankers from Citi, RBC, BofA, and sometimes Morgan Stanley.
I will point out that we had one especially sharp analyst that we worked with and with whom I developed a pretty good friendship with over the course of three years of working on numerous financings. He was there all the time. My boss and I would be working late (CST) and call up this analyst (EST) and he'd be working even later than we were. Once he got a promotion and the required month off (how nice must that be, you HAVE to take a month off!) he resigned. Big loss because the analysts that are replacing him, although they have more experience in the industry, are not as sharp.
Much of starting salary depends upon a) the area in which you plan to work, b) your level of experience, c) the size of the company/organization, and d) the type of accounting in which you will be involved.
Many of my classmates took job offers which required them to move as the starting pay was better. I remained where I was because I was an older student with family, house, etc... already established. However, the one thing you need to look at is the cost of living in an area where starting pay is higher. Before you move cross-country, away from family and friends, for that extra money, do your research and be certain it IS more in the grand scheme of things. Be certain that you look at the entire package and not just the salary. My benefits alone increase my compensation tremendously.
Your lack of experience can be a major factor. I did not intern, myself, but took every opportunity I could while in school to get practical experience. This includes volunteering for things like VITA. Aside from that, your ability to sell yourself will be paramount in getting, not only a job, but a competative salary.
It's been my experience that smaller companies often pay less to begin with than bigger companies and/or government. But there is something you need to remember about working for a bigger company... your accounting may become highly specialized which may make passing the CPA exam harder. In smaller companies, your range of responsibilty would be larger and that will keep many different facets of accounting fresher. This is something to think about when you have yet to reach some goals.
As you may, by now, know, accounting is not simply debits and credits. There are many different opportunities within the field. Many of my classmates took a job as a government auditor right out of school, but that was not what I enjoyed most. I, personally, hoped to find something in governmental/not for profit type of accounting or manufacturing. Then there are those who want to work for a CPA firm, which can involve a variety of accounting needs, but a lot of tax as well. Whatever your particular liking may be, there will be pay differences among the various types of accounting. You and you alone will have to decide what interests you most.
As a sidenote: I work for a small manufacturing company and the salary offered was not as much as I would have liked; however, the environment is exactly what I wanted. I was one of two accountants hired at the time and the other one had 17 years experience; yet, I was not making that much less than she. Eventually (quite quickly actually), I proved myself and my abilities. My raises have been above what one would expect and in the first two years I doubled my salary. If you add value, it is noted. Since I was so multifunctional (I do things in addition to the accounting that add value as well), it was the other accountant who was laid off during a slow period. Anyway, some of my classmates who began with a higher salary make less than I do now and I've only been working for 3 years. I truly believe that part of that has to do with the facts that a) the value I add can be easily seen as I do not have 50 other accountants for which the value can be attributed b) going into a field of accounting that I loved helped me excel, and c) a smaller company may have more leniency is the timing and amounts of raises as bigger companies have set review times and certain percentages within which to work.
ok, i guess if you have a loser mentality who would rather do debits and credits in the back room for peanuts and who is afraid to come out and compete with the "big boys", you can be an accountant.
I'm going to make sure I look at the big picture and set up a very good comparison before I decide on what I want to do.
I am actually leaning more towards the Regional smaller firms rather than really concentrating on trying to get hired by one of the big 4 mainly for the reasons that you stated at the end of your post.
I actually spoke to one of my friends who is graduating at the top of our class with an incredible resume which I'm sure if he'd want it to be could be 3 to 4 pages and he has basically been offered $46,500 plus a $1,000 signing bonus to work at one of the big 4.
He also told me that from what he understands the 3 other big firms are actually going to be paying between 48 to 52 thousand for their starters for the 2006 year.
I believe that if the situation is right with a small firm for which I believe will be a good fit for me and where it is close enough so that I can actually commute and save up a bit for the first year before I plan on buying a house, I would even go with 40,000 to start.
But again, the big picture is what seems to really matters.
One last thing that I would consider, again, speaking from experience, is to find a firm with genuinely nice people. They will be more likely to invest themselves in you to bring you along. I ended up with a firm out of school that took the "sink or swim" mentality with their staff. They provided no training, no CPE, and very very little mentoring. And in the accounting profession, the more experienced people HAVE to share their experience and time with the younger workers in order to keep them around. So as you're interviewing, look for nice people as well as a good opportunity and salary. Just my two cents!
well luckily, my household / culture is very family oriented and I'll still be living at home atleast for the first year. That will atleast save me the rent. Which can go upwards of 12 to 15 thousand.
So hopefully as long as I'm wise about things I believe that with the money I'll save up along with loans from family, (and also waiting for a real estate bust) I should be able to put down a down payment on a house.
To be truthfull, I'd rather be that guy who lives at home until he has enough for a down payment for a house, than to rent an apartment for 2 years and then have nothing to show for it because, well, rent is rent.
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