Inherited annuity to "inherited ira"

I am writing both out of personal concern and to provide some important information to those who might inherit an annuity.

Sadly my mother passed away last year, intestate. There was an variable annuity which she had not yet drawn upon. It had no beneficiary. I am anticipate inheriting as sadly my mother left no other relatives. Of course, I am concerned about the tax hit. At first the annuity company said the only option was to simply collect the funds. Now they say they can set up an inheritted IRA Account. This is much better as one only is taxed on the required minimum distribution each year rather than the entire contents of the annuity. In my case, I will simply increase my tax deferred savings through my employer by an amount equal to the RMD so it does not change my tax bill at all.

Publication 590 says that a direct transfer from a deceased employee's "qualified" "annuity plan" or "tax-sheltered annuity" or "governmental deferred compensation" is treated as an inherited IRA if one is the "beneficiary of the plan." Unfortunately, this does not completely cover the issues by the relevant sections of the Internal Revenue Code.

Section 408(d)(3)(C)(ii) of the Internal Revenue Code which concerns "inherited IRAs" and annuities. It says that the account will be treated as "inherited" if "the individual for whose benefit the account or annuity is maintained acquired such account by reason of the death of another individual."

Thus, the fact that my mother chose not to designate a beneficiary should not affect the ability of those inheriting the annuity from doing so.

It refers to section 408(a) of the IRC Code which simply states that it be organized for the exclusive "benefit of an individual or his beneficiaries..." It does not require that the retirement annuity be set up by an employer. It is not clear from talking to the annuity company where the money came from, e. g. did the employer deposit it or did my mother choose to make an investment. I have reason to believe the latter.

However, it gets more complicated! 408(a)(6) provides: "Under regulations prescribed by the Secretary, rules similar to the rules of section 401(a)(9) and the incidental death benefit requirements of section 401(a) shall apply to the distribution of the entire interest of an indivdual for whose benefit the trust if maintained."

401(a)(9)(A) A trust shall not constitute a qualified trust under this subsection unless the plan provides that the enitre interest of each employee--will be distributed to such employee not later than the required beginning date...over the life of such employee or over the lives of such employee and a designated beneficiary.

The required beginning date means April First of the calendar year following the later of the calendar year in which the employee attains age 70

1/2 or the calendar year in which the employee retires.

My heart sunk when I saw this since I knew my mother had the required date on her ninetieth birthday and she unfortunately passed away on her eightieth birthday. (She complained that she would want to not beginning these distributions as early as her ninetieth anniversary.)

However, I read the next paragraph entitled "Exception" Subclause (II) of clause (i) shall not apply for purposes of section 408(a)(6) or (b)(3). So it looks like I may be able to roll over, but there is the clause I which refers to age 70 1/2. (408(b)(3) refers to an individual retirement annuity.)

I checked these statutes in the United States Code Annotated and there have been no court cases regarding the inheriting of retirement accounts or their roll-over into an inherited IRA.

I also see a thread on inherited annuities in September 2007 in this group and it seems to indicate that one can roll over and it does not say anything about the "required distribution" starting at age 70 1/2. What gives?

I had the insurance company look at it.

Thanks for any confirmation that anyone might provide on this subject. Hopefully, I can get the information free but I am open to paying a financial or legal professional if they can provide value.

And I hope this information is helpful to other people who may be faced with a similar tragic circumstance. Insist upon moving the annuity to an inherited IRA and also get a copy of the original contract for the annuity.

Reply to
aallflaat
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Where did the money come from? Was it from an IRA and is this account an annuity within an IRA? Or, was it a rollover from a pension?

If it was a purchased annuity, with post tax funds, I am unaware of any provision that lets you shift it into an IRA. IRAs are sourced with annual cash deposits or rollovers from other retirement accounts.

I don't understand the above sentence. What was required on her 90th birthday?

Joe

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Reply to
joetaxpayer

You have no question.

Each account application form should require an entry for beneficiary.

Unless adding the RMD amount causes you to exceed your allowed contribution.

You are trying to designate a beneficiary?

"IRC Code" and "simple" is an oxymoron...by some measures.

Most of your post, I could not make it through.

-Mark Bole

Reply to
Mark Bole

I agree, but perhaps a concensus of correctness is being sought.

That doesn't mean that one was stated, or that the estate wasn't selected as the named beneficiary (which is a stupid choice if one does have an heir).

contribution.

I don't see that as happening since RMDs can't be rolled over. Only non-RMD amounts could be, but note that aggregating an inherited amount with non-inherited amounts loses the inherited character.

I don't see that. The law has already selected a beneficiary for you.

I can't figure what's going on either - for certain.

Reply to
D. Stussy

I read this (way too long) post to ask: "Can I roll my deceased mom's annuity into an IRA?"

OP did not (that I could find) indicate the source of the funds. I also suspect that if the answer were 'yes' as funds were in an IRA or from a lump sum pension, that he still can't roll to an IRA as he was not a named beneficiary on the annuity, although I am not certain of this last point, only that it pertains to inherited IRAs. Joe

Reply to
joetaxpayer

Thanks to everyone who answered my post. Sorry that the original post was so difficult to follow even though I did reread it carefully and revised before posting.

There are two issues mentioned in the answers. I do not know where the money came from. However, the insurance company told me that the annuity was qualified.

Section 408(d)(3)(C)(ii) of the Internal Revenue Code which concerns "inherited IRAs" and annuities. It says that the account will be treated as "inherited" if "the individual for whose benefit the account or annuity is maintained acquired such account by reason of the death of another individual."

My mother did not designate a specific beneficiary on the account, so by the intestate laws of her state (my mother was unmarried after her first divorce and there were no other children), I end up inheriting it.

And I know, but thanks for the reminder, that one must keep the inherited IRA separate from other accounts.

Reply to
aallflaat

I believe the same rule as for an inherited IRA applies, you needed to be named on the account to inherit it with the option of a 'stretch' payout. Inheriting through a will or the laws regarding intestate estates means a 5 year maximum payout is required. If the amount is large enough, it's worth consulting, and paying for, a professional opinion. I hope your clarification will invite others to offer their advice, as I am not 100%, given the annuity twist.

Joe

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Reply to
joetaxpayer

Yup.

Which also means if there is any basis to these IRAs, you have multiple Forms 8606! And you use two different tables/entries to calculate your MRD.

Reply to
Arthur Kamlet

I've followed this thread, but not seen confirmation of the correct response. Is my assumption that Annuities have the same beneficiary requirements as IRAs (i.e. that the bene must be spelled out on the account paperwork) correct, or does that rule not apply?

Joe

Reply to
joetaxpayer

They certainly should, but if they don't and the annuity company lets it go, or even if it names a beneficiary who is no longer alive at time of annuitant's death, it goes to the estate where it might become messy.

Reply to
Arthur Kamlet

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