Rollover to IRA: ten annual payments = 9 years + 1 day?

IRS Publication 575 for 2006, page 26, describing what payments are eligible for rollover to an IRA says: "Except... Any of a series of substantially equal distributions paid at least once a year over... c. A period of 10 years or more." What is "a period of 10 years or more?" In particular, how does the IRS regard a series of ten annual installments, each falling on the same calendar day of a different tax year (so that the elapsed time of the whole series of payments is nine years and one day?) I, like hundreds of thousands of others, have a TIAA "Traditional" retirement account. Assets in this account cannot be liquidated as a lump sum, but only via a "transfer payout annuity," which takes the form of ten annual roughly equal installments, each made on the same calendar day. The transfer payout annuity is described in a TIAA brochure available online at

formatting link
"Tax Issues" on page 9 says "CAN I ROLL OVER MY CASH PAYMENTS TO AN IRA? Yes. If cash payments from a TPA are available to you, you can make direct rollovers to an IRA."

Two TIAA reps have told me that there is no problem because the payout period is only 9 years and one day. Both have noted (and I have confirmed) that a TPA once consisted of 11 installments and was shortened to only 10; they said this was done precisely to avoid the IRS restriction. But when queried about the issue, the brokerage that will be receiving the payments said: "The client is correct that the TIAA brochure mandating transfers over a 10 year period appears to be in direct contradiction to the IRS determination in Publication 575 that Transfers taking 10 or more years are not eligible as a rollover distributions. As the ultimate question refers to an IRS determination, we would suggest that the you request a 'Written Determination' (also referred to as a 'Private Letter Ruling') from the IRS." Two IRS telephone representatives, the second of whom called me back several days after the initial inquiry and I assume to have been a higher echelon than the first, believe that the TPA schedule would be considered by the IRS to be "a period of ten years." Neither of them could point me to any clarification or official definition of what exactly is meant by "a period of ten years." One of them said all she could do was read me the actual language of the tax code, which says simply "a period of ten years" without any further clarification of what exactly is meant by that. They too suggested a "private letter determination" but this appears to be a very expensive process, not something anyone can get just by making a simple request. I am, of course, pursuing this with the TIAA, as I can't believe they didn't get such an IRS determination themselves, but with no results so far. (Told they'd send me something but that I should wait a month... waited a month... told that the query seemed to have gotten lost and they'd re-initiate it... etc. etc.) I can't quite believe this isn't a straightforward question, as it must have come up literally thousands of times before. I keep thinking there must be some detailed description somewhere of just how the IRS counts "a period of ten years." Thoughts?

-- Daniel P. B. Smith, snipped-for-privacy@dpbsmith.com "Elinor Goulding Smith's Great Big Messy Book" is now back in print! Sample chapter at

formatting link
it at
formatting link

> > > > > > > > >
Reply to
Daniel P. B. Smith
Loading thread data ...

The simplest definition means 10 tax years. So 10 payments paid once a year covers 10 tax years, but only spans 9 years

  • 1 day.
Reply to
bono9763

And if you specify that the payments should be on August 25, the first payment is August 27, 2007 and the last payment is August 25, 2016, a period of 9 years - 1 day (but still in

10 different calendar years). To avoid that, specify that payments should be made on December 31, starting in 2011. Seth
Reply to
Seth

My original reply seems to have been lost in the ether....

My analysis of TIAA TPAs tells me that they are not substantially equal periodic payments. As such, they are eligible for rollover. It doesn't matter whether they are 9 years or 10 years.

Reply to
A.G. Kalman

I would suggest that you roll the 10 annual TIAA payments into a CREF IRA at TIAA-CREF itself, thereby avoiding the questions from the other brokerage. You can periodically rollover sums from the CREF IRA to the other brokerage, if you desire.

Reply to
tobe

BeanSmart website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.