Schedule C (performing artists) losses 3+ years - question.

Hello - my husband and I are both NYC-based performing artists, though not full-time - "rent jobs" are necessary. Both of our rent jobs are hourly and non-full-time, but are W-2 with all taxes withheld. Our performing contracts, as we get them, are 1099. We've filed married status since FY

2004. 2004 was a loss year for both of us, 2005 was profit for him and loss for me, 2006 will have been a loss year for both. My last year that I filed as a single, 2003, was a profit year, as was 2002 (really small profit, but profit). I am not sure what my husband's loss/profit status for arts work was in 2002/03. Since we've been married, my husband has done our taxes on Turbo Tax, but prior to that I was with a Manhattan-based CPA specializing in taxes for artists and he always said you could not claim more than 3 years in a row of losses without reorganization unless you want to invite an audit. So my questions are:

- is this true? Do any accountants out there disagree?

- if so, does our marital status, or year we first filed jointly, impact the start of the 3 years?

- also, if necessary, how does one reorganize? (Neither of us is incorporated)

- I presume we can always choose to not claim certain things to appearas though we turned a profit?

- If necessary, can we simply not file for self-employed arts business one year if it will have been a loss? Also, if we turn a profit the following year, can we begin filing again for the self-employed arts business?

My husband says that he has asked accountants about this and that as long as our documentation is sound, we prove adequately that we have worked in the field for the required amount of hours per year, and we are conservative in what we claim as expenses, there is no need to worry about how many years in a row we take a loss. I am paranoid, however, and really want to be certain we won't have an audit. When we do get contracts, they tend to be out of state, so our taxes can get quite complicated. Many thanks.

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Reply to
Leanne.GS
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This is a rule of thumb, and I believe it's written into the tax code.

The issue is, are you really trying to earn income from the business, or is it a hobby? If you're really trying to earn income you're ok. But if you don't make money for three years and seem ok with it continuing that way, the IRS will decide it's a hobby and you don't get to take a loss. Stu

Reply to
Stuart A. Bronstein

wrote

On the face os it, it's not true. However, if you do get audited, the responsibility to prove your activities are profit motivated (and not recreational).

It's a rolling number of years, and it would apply to each activity (his and yours) separately.

I'm not sure what his comment was neant to imply.

And some people do that. I wouldn't recommend it though. If you have strong records, not only of your performance expenses, but that of your attepts at getting paying work, that should suffice.

I wouldn't recommend that either. It might look like you are a "part-time" performer who isn't in it for real.

I'd side more with his logic on the matter, but I would recommend going back to the CPA firm you used in the past. They probably can be more beneficial to you because of their experience in the field.

-- Paul Thomas, CPA snipped-for-privacy@bellsouth.net

Reply to
Paul Thomas, CPA

Listen to your husband. As long as your actions and recordkeeping show the intent to make a profit (whether you do or not) - and not just pursue a hobby - you should be OK. The 3-year period mentioned by your former accountant is basically an urban myth, not substantiated by tax law.

Reply to
Herb Smith

The IRS uses the 3 yr rule as a rebuttalble presumtion. So, if you have losses for 3yrs in a row, it could be a hobby loss situation. In that case, you cannot deduct your losses. However, if you can prove that you are operating your "business" in a business like manner and can show a real profit motive, you can overcome the hobby loss problem. I have had success using this approach with artists, musicians & other types of businesses that have shown losses & attacked by the IRS under the hobby loss rules. ___________________________________

-----> real address on hobokeni or hobokenx

Reply to
Benjamin Yazersky CPA

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