2nd Charge Mortgage, Sale of House & Repossession Proceedings.

I too am a surprised as to the outright order, however, judging by the ERC percentage, it would appear to be a sub-prime mortgage in any case, and those lenders do not mess about.

Reply to
Willy
Loading thread data ...

It doesn't necessarily imply that at all. The mortgagor could be trying hard to sell the property (having been duly pestered by a number of "pay up soon or else" letters from the mortgagee), but may simply not have found a buyer yet. Of course it may be that, in the view of both mortgagee and the court, the prospects of achieving an early sale at a satisfactory price are slim, but there again a buyer could be forthcoming during or after the court hearing.

Accepted.

Accepted, in normal circumstances. In the sub-prime sector, I expect mortgagees will likely be a bit more mercenary.

This does not follow. In both the case of a mortgagee and a landlord, there is a limit beyond which they are not prepared to allow arrears to mount up. There comes a point where they say "enough is enough" and will commence proceedings for repossession in one case or eviction in the other. But where that limit is, is a matter of choice for both.

I don't accept this. It is illogical for a landlord evicting a tenant to charge penalty rent for failing to give notice, because here it is the landlord giving notice, not the tenant. It is similarly illogical for a borrower to be charged an interest penalty for redeeming a loan early when it is the lender who is calling in the loan early.

I'm glad to hear it. If a reasonable offer is in the pipeline, it is clearly preferable to wait and see if it comes through than to go to auction, but one does hear stories where the mortgagees don't give a stuff, and just want rid of the debt even if the sale proceeds are less than the debt.

Yes, of course I am. The decision to commence proceedings (and when to do so) is solely the mortgagee's. The mortgagor will have been stupid to let himself end up in this situation, but oftentimes it can be the case that his hard times are temporary and there is some prospect of being able to catch up on arrears in due course.

So the mortgagor is putting a gun to the mortgagee's head, asking them to repossess or else?

Reply to
Ronald Raygun

Estate agents are increasingly taking on the job of auctioneer, and hopefully securing a fair price as a result. For several weeks a property will appear with its picture and:

"We are in receipt of an offer of whatever for 6 Acacia Road. If anyone would care to make an increased offer for this property please contact..."

Reply to
Troy Steadman

have you attended any possesion hearing?

Well, whether you accept it or not, there it is.

care to cite such "Stories"

and this has nothing to do with a default in agreed mortgage payments?

Reply to
Willy

No. What has that to do with the price of eggs?

How the heck should I remember where I've heard them? Fact is a lot of property at auctions (and I've been to a few) *is* marked as "for sale by order of mortgagees in possession". So naturally it follows that a lot of repossessions do end up at auctions, and they do end up going for rather less than their open market value would be.

Of course the defaults are what spurns the lender into action, but clearly they have some latitude in how much effort to put into the alternatives before going for the repo option. That decision, and its timing, are theirs.

Reply to
Ronald Raygun

you cannot not witness anything you have not experienced, therefore, it follows, that one cannot speak of with authority, experiences that has not been witnessed

Why does this follow??

Which alternatives are you refering too?

Reply to
Willy

how does one "try hard" to sell a property, i thought that you merly put it in the hands of agents and left it to them

Reply to
Alan

Quite, also, once repossessed then there is nothing left to sell, as it is in the hands of the lender

NB: Alan could you please careful as to how you "snip" as this comment has been attributed to me, when in fact I was merely replying to it as well.

Reply to
Willy

But what one would witness may be irrelevant to the point at issue.

What goes on behind the closed doors of a hearing has no bearing on whether a suitable bid materialises at the eleventh hour.

The hearing will end with repossession being either granted or not, and if it is, it merely gives the mortgagee *authority* to repossess, it doesn't commit them to having to go ahead. If a suitable offer has meanwhile come in, then they are perfectly at liberty to put exercising the authority on hold, and to let the mortgagor sell the property (which after all still belongs to him) in the normal way. They get their money, and everybody's happy.

Elementary. You have box A and box B, and box B contains a lot of X which has come from box A, then it's self-evident that a lot of what was in A has gone to B. Just label box A "repossessed properties" and label box B "properties at auction".

Those which you have already alluded to when you said, IIRC, that mortgagees will try hard to avoid having to go down the repo route. Typically this would involve some kind of agreement for rescheduling payments. Extending the term, moving from repayment to interest-only, or even setting payments temporarily at a level below interest-only, letting interest roll up into the debt (or even setting a low or zero rate for a while). Obviously they will have to take a view on the risk involved, taking into account the borrower's likely future ability to pay, and his present asset position.

If they do repossess and are unable to recover the whole debt from the proceeds of a quick (and hence below market value) sale, the borrower may not ever be able to repay the remaining debt, so the lender could lose more than by adopting a wait-and-see stance, bearing in mind that if the mortgagor is allowed to remain, his earnings potential is likely to be higher than if he gets kicked out.

Reply to
Ronald Raygun

sell at a realistic price is number one, followed by the basics of; clean and tidy up, , remove all the everyday crap and clutter, paint over hideus decoration, make good all those small imperfections like cracked windows, peeling paint etc. (I nce went to visit a house witha great big hole in the (unpainted) front door and holes in the carpets (which were for sale 'by negotiation). the house was for sale at more than the price of nicely decorated, clean houses without holes in their front doors, in the same and nearby streets. Needless to say, I didnt buy it and I dont think they were "trying hard" do you?

Reply to
Tumbleweed

which is all they need, and no the lender does not always extend the possesson date regardless.

???

What you say here is a precursor to litigation bt something that happens subsequent

Reply to
Willy

Of course, but having obtained the authority, they don't have to exercise it, should prospects of either achieving a sale or of an improvement in the borrower's financial position have materialised meanwhile (he might have come into an inheritance suddenly, or (even less likely) won the lottery).

Regardless of what? "Not always" is good enough for me. Clearly they would only put it on hold if there is something to regard.

Incidentally, is there a "use by" date on repossession orders? I.e. if they exercise leniency for too long, would it become invalid and would they then have to go to court again?

Which part of that do you have difficulty understanding? You asked why "a lot of repossessions end up at auctions" follows from "a lot of properties at auction are repossessions". I tried to explain, by using the analogy of abstract boxes, that this is self-evident.

Assuming "bt" means "not", yes, that's exactly right. This answers your question which was which alternatives I was referring to when I said "how much effort to put into the alternatives before going for the repo option". I naturally intended "going for the repo option" to mean "commencing repo proceedings", hence "before commencing" would indeed be a precursor to litigation.

However, there is also the "subsequent" option mentioned above, which is, having obtained authority to reposses, to delay exercising that authority should an eleventh hour development have come to light.

Reply to
Ronald Raygun

A lot of ducks are swimming. (ducks => properties at auction; swimming => reposessions)

It doesn't follow (and is manifestly false) that a lot of swimming animals are ducks.

I have no knowledge whether the majority of reposessions end up at auction. But even if the only sort of property sold at auction was reposessions it doesn't necessarily follow that the majority of reposessions are sold at auction.

Tim

Reply to
google

On the contrary, it is manifestly true.

Correct, but "a lot" is not the same as "the majority", it simply means a large number.

I have no knowledge of what proportion of repossessions end up at auctions, but have a very strong suspicion that it is high, given that a large number (relatively speaking) are to be found there, and given also that the number of repossessions is itself not all that large on the grand scale of things.

Reply to
Ronald Raygun

So you are guessing then?

Reply to
Willy

You never did pass logic 101 then?

All postboxes are red, therefore all red things are postboxes.

Reply to
Dave Mayall

You never did pass comprehension 101 then? :-)

"A lot" just means "many", not "all".

To phrase it in your terms, consider the set of red things and the set of postboxes. Consider the intersection set, i.e. the set of red postboxes.

If we observe that this intersection set has many members [1], then we can deduce that there are many postboxes which are red [2], and that there are many red things which are postboxes [3].

Of course if observation [1] was derived from an inspection of the set of postboxes, then deduction [2] isn't very interesting, not even really a deduction at all, but an input which gave us [1].

So only deduction [3] is of any interest here, but it is valid all the same: There are many red things which are postboxes. Mind you, just because "many" red things are postboxes doesn't mean red postboxes form a high proportion of red things, since we happen to know there are an awful lot of red things (much more than many) which are not postboxes.

But in the case of repossessed properties, we have the additional piece of information that there are *not* an awful lot of repossessions (red things), and so it is unlikely that the many repos which end up at auctions (red postboxes) form a miniscule proportion of repos. That is to say that it is likely that the proportion of repos ending up at auctions is likely to be substantial.

Reply to
Ronald Raygun

Yes, but it's not an arbitrary guess, it is inspired by logic which I have explained elsewhere.

Does anyone have actual figures to offer?

Reply to
Ronald Raygun

this onus is on you :-)

Reply to
Willy

BeanSmart website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.