Buying a house right now. How safe?

Last year me and my wife were looking to in the South East buy and had a small 5k deposit saved up. Appalled by the Dickensian mouldy shoeboxes we could afford we decided to do a lot of extra work, give up virtually everything besides food and get a 10%+ deposit together.

A friend in finance had told us that, give or take, with a 10%-15% deposit we can almsot borrow what we like. Obviously though, we don't want a mortgage that would stretch us too far.

Our financial situation isn't that typical. We both have full time jobs but are rather underemployed and have found landing jobs more suited to our qualifications and experience so difficult that we've stopped assuming we'll be earning a great deal more over the next few years. However, we both freelance in addition to our day jobs and some months this extra cash can be anything from a couple of hundred to almost half our day job salaries.

We also don't own a car and currently walk/cycle to work, have only one modest personal loan between us, no credit card balances, overdrafts, etc. Essentially, we're not that scared of a large mortgage to attain something that's more important to us than expensive holidays, consumer widgets, fancy restaurants, etc.

Unfortunately, now that we have a 16k and growing deposit that goal posts have moved once more. Last summer some friends bought a nice, modernised two bedroom terrance for 164k. Looking around now, we can't find anything of this quality around for less than £172. More affordable options are probably not really more affordable as a modest amount of 'work' usually needs doing at the very least.

What're more there's literally NOTHING to see. I've never seen Estate Agents with so few properties at ANY price. It's a strange kind of 'boom' that sees so few homes changing hands. Seems more like a log jam than a boom.

As there's barely anything on the market, it seems to be causing people to pay daft money (again) for quite skanky homes. The area contains thousands of suitable similarly-specced homes but none of them are up for sale just now, which makes us nervous of paying over the odds for a less than perfect place with so little to choose from.

Also, while homes in our price bracket are selling in a day or two, similiar properties available for rent are 'sticking around', sometimes for months. One or two of these are now up for sale. I'm wondering what might happen to the market if the first-time but-to-letters start panicking and start dumping their dodgy investments back onto the market.

Personally, I'm no expert, but i can't see house prices falling here anytime soon - but then what if... My town is becoming more and more part of greater london every week. The demographic is changing and becoming more yuppified. The population is rising. Any new home projects are never more than a drop in the ocean when it comes to meeting demand. This is true for most of the south.

In Spain, where incomes have always been low in relation to house prices, Spanish couples have traditionally coped by living with parents for 10 years and saving up huge deposits before buying - and home ownsership is even higher in Spain than the UK. Maybe with the so called 'boomerang generation', the UK will simply see a sociological shift in how people obtain homes, which will remain forever - and the idea of simply earning a home through working while renting won't be possible anymore.

So is it a good time to buy? Can anyone offer evidence of an impending crash? Are interest rates going to strangle us like they strangled my parents in the 80s?

d.

Reply to
David
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I'm in a similar situation. I have a reasonable amount of cash, but even a studio flat is > 100,000 GPB. I suspect a price correction is going to happen at some point (looking at the ratio of average earnings to house prices). The question is when and how much, and nobody knows as it is impossible to predict.

A drop may not be much of a problem if you're planning to stay in your area for the next 5-10 years, as prices will eventually recover to more than your mortgage. You need to make sure that you can cover payments when interest rates inevitably increase however.

I'm holding off buying as my job is rather specialised (an academic), and so I need more short-term flexibility to move. So I have to continue to live in damp rented flats :-(

cd

Reply to
criticaldensity

Your analysis suggests that if solvent people like you can't afford to but anything they like then the market has to correct.

Reply to
The Blue Max

A friend who is an estate agent told me last week that 95% of the 'first time buyer ' type of houses she is selling are being sold to buy-to-letters, there are almost no 'first time buyers' at the moment. As long as there are enough people willing to rent (or forced to) then this could continue for some time.

Reply to
Tumbleweed

or more accurately - this will continue for as long as there are enough people willing to rent.

I don't see the implication of longevity in your formulation - only the assumtion. (circular reasoning)

Reply to
curiosity

In message , Tumbleweed writes

95% of our 1st time buyer type properties are being sold to 1st time buyers. We cant get enough houses to sell to them, (1st time buyers, that is).

Markets generally start to stagnate, and fall, when there are no 1st time buyers, (or buy to let'ers now), willing to pay the prices asked.

We are inundated with 1st time buyers, so there is little chance of a crash in my part of Manchester in the short term.

Typical prices for 1st time buyer properties are around £100K to £150K here.

Reply to
Richard Faulkner

Begging the question.

It depends rather on how much positive feedback there is in the system before it becomes unstable. If no FTBs can afford to buy, they will have rent (or stay with parents/friends).

Reply to
Ronald Raygun

I would back that up. I have decided to cash in on a house I have in Peterborough that I have been renting out for 18 years.

Just under 100k and 33 first time buyers saw it in 5 days. Sold now for the asking price.

Not one professional landlord (or person who admitted not being a first time buyer)

IMHO the price is crazy but as always the value is what people will pay for it. In 97 I offered this house for 25K and got not a single viewing.

Andy

Reply to
me

Well things improved considerably after the signing of the Magna Carta.

Reply to
curiosity

sorry, I saw that as 971 rather than 97, I

That certainly is a remarkable rise in 7 years.

Reply to
curiosity

Around where I live many small to medium size houses are being bought for buy to let. A lot of the other houses do not sell. I think even the cheapest flats/houses are beyond most first time buyers' budget (160K+).

The bizarre thing is that most of the BTL houses remain empty for many months before getting a tenant and that many other houses are vacated without selling at all. This is not in a depressed inner city area but in a very desirable country town. In a situation like this I don't understand why house prices are not dropping.

Reply to
nospam

buy-to-letters,

FWIW my friend is in Bristol but no idea of prices.

Reply to
Tumbleweed

buy-to-letters,

Maybe uninformed BTL's are buying from each other and keeping the market going?

Reply to
Tumbleweed

Some of our friends have quit better jobs to take lesser work in Birmingham or Manchester where there is still a little affordability. Maybe the market in the North is being inflated by the 'economically cleansed' fleeing the south?

We've considered moving, but quitting two half reasonable jobs in such a stagnant job market is just too much of a risk. We're better off trying to scrape by in the south for the time being.

d.

Reply to
David

willing to

What does 'willing to rent' mean in realityt? We know dozens of people who resent every penny they spend on rent - particularly those forced to pay rents as big as mortgage repayments on mortgages the banks refuse to grant.

That's pretty sick. We know one guy with a baby and a wife that pays out £800 a month in rent, but can't get a mortgage with a monthly payment of £800.

d.

Reply to
David

It's similar here. Houses for sale under 200K go in a day or two. BTL properties stick around for ages with their sickeningly high rents. In what use to be a grubby urban town with modest incomes it's now

350-400 to rent a scummy bedsit. The trouble is people just seem to put up with a plummeting quality of life year in year out and blame 'high taxes' instead of asking why the government isn't taxing certain 'money for nothing' property speculators more and diverting the money into badly needed affordable homes. More homes is the only thing that will cool demand and therefore prices as well as being socially beneficial.

d.

Reply to
David

Don't you think people also resent every penny they spend on mortgage payments?

"Particularly as big as"? You'd generally expect to pay *more* in rent than on mortgage payments for a similar property.

Well, the rent includes the cost of building insurance and repairs, which a mortgage would not, so to an extent he's saving money.

Can he really afford to take on long-term debt of nearly £200k, bearing in mind interest rates are on their way up? Rates could easily go up by half, and though less likely in the short term, they might even double. Could he afford £1200 a month, or £1600?

He may begrudge the landlord his meagre profit, but would he not begrudge a lender theirs?

Reply to
Ronald Raygun

What's the difference between renting a property and renting the money to buy a property?

If they're against renting, then they ought to be against renting money too.

FoFP

Reply to
M Holmes

This would be like the Dutch government taxing tulip bulbs; the British government taxing South Seas Company shares, or the US government taxing Wall Street stocks. The reason is the same: it'd be wildly unpopular at a time when damn near everyone is either involved in the boom, or aspires to be. In fact, it's more usual for governments to get their slice by their members becoming corruptly involved in encouraging prices higher. When the scandals start to appear, that'll be the Bell for the top of the market.

No. A lack of credit will do this much more effectively.

FoFP

Reply to
M Holmes

I thought the revelations about self-certify mortgages were pretty scandalous, if not unexpected. But very little seems to have happened - was this practice being exaggerated by the Beeb or will it come back to bite us? I know which I think the more likely...

Neil

Reply to
Neil Jones

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