Wages...

But we are talking about the basics here. Housing, water, food, heating and lighting.

Housing, food, water, heating and lighting?

Tax credits make very little difference IME.

You don't have to have borrowed too much to be in financial difficulty right now. We have had a period of high inflation so it could affect anyone who is not fortunate enough to have had compensatory pay rises.

In our household all of those things could be sourced cheaper than they are. it's just not necessary to do so at the moment.

lets just stop it off then.

Very few people have had that luxury. I certainly haven't.

28 years ago Mother in Law had a private medical consultation with an orthopeadic surgeon to jump the NHS queue, it cost her £80.00 for 10 mins. Co-incidentally at that time we moved into a new house.

In the last month SWMBO had a private medical consultation as part of a course of private treatment. The charge was £110 for 10 mins. That is a 37.5% increase in a period when the price of the house that we bought at that time has increased 2,750%

Moral = Better be a builder's labourer than a consultant surgeon. If this situation had continued consultant surgeons would have been paying £110 for a 10 minute consultation with a plasterer LOL.

And some people are nonplussed that this set up has come to an end.

Derek

We stayed in the same house, but prior to our lifestyle change we remortgaged to a fixed rate. Food can always be cheaper, heating and lighting can always be reduced. In the last 5-6 months we have reduced our electricity consumption by a third.

Depends on your circumstances. I had a part-time member of staff who got over 1000 a month in tax credits. I'm sure she regarded it as a considerable difference.

How old are you? 5% inflation as a one-off isn't high.

I got 2% this year as a payrise, so it certainly hasn't compensated for the spike in inflation, yet it would take quite a few years of below inflation payrises before we couldn't afford basics. The people landing in trouble are much more likely to have been close to their limits already and depending on further borrowing - such as credit cards or remortgaging to maintain their lifestyle. The tightening of credit is much more likely to have affected them than inflation eroding their income.

Neb

Why can't they work? If it is due to disability or long-term ill health they are likely to get benefits.

Neb

Young children are not allowed to work.

If a household has already sourced all these things at the cheapest rate they can, what further scope are there for savings?

I fail the see the relevance of this. We're talking staples not luxuries such as private health treatment.

Eh? A builder's laabourer cannot charge 110GBP for 10 minutes work.

There's a limit to how much these can be reduced without a severe drop in standard of living. We have always been frugal so have very little scope for reduction. I would guess (no insult indented) that the fact that you could reduce your electricity consumption by 1/3 in 6 months was because you wasted a lot of energy prior to that.

To some.

It's not the absolute level of inflation that is significant here but the ratio of inflation to pay increases. If one's pay increases are below inflation consistently for many years then there comes a point where even the cautious can be badly affected.

I got much less than 2% this year. However, as I said in the previous paragraph, this has been happening for many years. We haven't got to the stage where we cannot afford basics yet, but we have had to cut back seriously this year. The tightening of credit has not figured in this for us since we don't have loans (except for a mortgage). I suspect the same applies for many others.

One of my main aims with this whole discussion has been to point out that substantial cuts can be made in most peoples expenditure. You seem to be accepting that now, but say it would bring a severe drop in your standard of living.

Think about what you mean by that. When is the last time you analysed your fuel usage in depth? What do you mean by we wasted a lot of energy before that?

We already thought we were frugal with electric. Yet visiting some websites and looking at what we did use was quite an eye opener.

Steps we took included - moving last few bulbs to energy saving. Getting rid of a fridge/freezer and a fridge and replacing both with a new energy efficient fridge/freezer. (Not easy if you really can't afford basics.) Shutting everything off overnight at the wall- computer, router, TV, DVD player etc. Going from two fish tanks to one. Only boiling one or two cups of water at a time rather than a kettleful. As a result we have cut our daily usage from 18 units to 12. I don't regard any of that as a severe drop in my living standards. Do you know how many Kilowatt hours you use on a daily basis?

If you really don't regard 1000 a month in tax credits as significant then you are in a very privileged position. You need to recognise that it isn't that you are struggling to buy basics but that you have a lifestyle you wish to protect.

My main point is that I have been there, felt the same way, and then felt a sense of release in walking away from a job I greatly disliked and cutting my expenditure. It isn't as important as you think!

Neb

One of my main aims in this discussion has been to point out that it is not just the people who have borrowed recklessly who are now suffering. I can make small cuts in my expenditure without a major drop in my standard of living but I am sure that many people are not so fortunate.

I don't analyse my energy consumption in depth but I don't think there would be any surprizes by doing so.

We already replaced all the lightbulbs we can with energy efficient ones and are steadily converting the rest as the situation arises. We already have a A rated fridge and freezer. We never have left appliances on standby. We don't have any fish ;-). We always boil the minumum amount of water. Our house is well insulated etc etc. Not much scope for further reductions there. Household energy costs are only a very small proportion of our expenditure anyway.

I would regard £1000 per month in tax credits a lot. I don't get anywhere near that. If I happened to lose my job then £1000 per month would not enable me to manage.

I wish I could afford to give up my job!!!! I can't imagine how I could cut my expenditure by that much!!!! Most of my money is spent on Mortgage/Food/Clothing/Tax/Children/Car and there's not much left after that. These are all things that have increased a lot in price in recent times, especially food.

Most people who have children spend everything they earn on these things, though you could probably throw in childcare and a holiday as well. Most of them claim they have to, and don't recognise the choices they have.

We bought a newly built house in 1991, that was really pushing our luck- the type of house most of my colleagues in the same job would have aspired to. We didn't regard it as anything more than we needed though. By 1994 we were doing quite well, but I was really fed-up at work and took a change of direction. I gave up my job, but didn't give up work. The steps we took halved our income overnight, with two young children. Yet in a strange sort of way it was quite liberating - recognising that many of the things we held dear were not that important.

It took me ten years to work back to an equivalent salary level to the one I gave up, but I really appreciate it this time round. I also recognise I could do without it if I had to.

Interestingly enough working my way through my new career I once did a benefits calculation and discovered I would be better off not working. My income would have dropped by some 700 a month, but my expenditure would have dropped by nearer 1000.

Neb

I'm assuming this is a reaction to an adverse change in circumstances. Most families get used to not living *the very cheapest way* during good times.

It serves to illustrate that not everybody has had pay increases that bear any relation to inflation. Whereas housing, and that associated with housing has led the field.

If you are old and decrepit there's nothing luxurious about it if you are sick and the NHS is talking about a wait measured in Glacial Epochs for treatment. Just today I was warned by the dentist that the wait for an urgent complicated extraction he can't do and therefore I must have at the local NHS Dental Hospital is " 9 to 12 weeks" :-((((

The NHS *target* for urgent treatment is set to be 18 weeks to be achieved by the end of the year. I'm hazarding a guess after that there will be no more money for any further improvements.

No good if you can't walk / can't work.

Oh no ? I think you'll find people like Dyno-Rod or similar franchises do precisely that and more.

Roofers (OAP mum's experience) are not far behind plumbers often tending to work in units of half a day chose how long the job takes.

Derek

That shows why there shouldn't be any long term benefits except in very special situations.

-- snip ---

That's precisely the point I have been trying to make! And I've just found out that I am not going to get a pay rise at all this year. :-(

Yes. Most people cannot afford private health treatment at all.

I can't get NHS Dental Treatment at all at the moment in my area.

They charge £660 per hour?