CPA licensing problem...

One more thing: Being that I am in NJ, if anyone has encountered a similar situation in the state (or if you know of anyone that has had this happen in NJ), please post back here. I have already spoken to a few people and am considering organizing a 'class-action type' of action against the state board - Mainly due to the lack of communication of this statute... It should be presented on each renewal application that goes out. Not relying on people to find the statute on the Internet, or in my case, too late. And it turns out, this is happening to quite a few people...

It's the law in every state that licenses CPA's, that you ~maintain~ that license with annual renewals. There are exceptions for paying late, but not several years late. Any state that would offer reciprocity on licensing would begin with your **current** license in some state and go from there. Unfortunately you do not have a current license. It is doubtful that any state will just give you one without meeting all the rules for that state (like sitting for the exam).

You can toss money out for a law suit, but you probably don't have any legal basis to keep it going much past the arttorney's office doors.

Thanks for your thoughts Paul. And you make a good point.

On a side note: I did make several attempts to pay (sent checks), but each time instead of accepting the check, the board would return it and require $X amount more from me for a late fee or fine. I hit a really low point in my life at that time and barely had money to pay my bills (was already borrowing to the hilt). This back and forth between me and the board went on for a few years, so it wasn't as if I totally disregarded the process... And I was scraping up the money to pay for my CPE credits all along the way... Most laws in this country have exceptions for "undue hardships/emotional trauma" and the like... I'm hoping that someone up the food-chain might find their heart and show some compassion...

Also after I suggested that the Board add a line item on the renewal form for NJ that states "renewals for licenses that have lapsed over 5 years will be required to re-sit for the CPA Exam", a person at the State Board said that "why should they publish something like that???" (like I was out of my mind for suggesting it)... He went on to say "it would only cause them more work because of the phone calls that would come in"... Typical beaurocratic response - "why should I be expected to actually 'work' for my salary?"

Why? Maybe to educate the members that they are licensing... So that good, honest, ethical people do not unknowningly lose something that they worked so hard to get. I understand the need for such a rule (to insure licensees of any profession stay current), but if all other aspects have been met (education, skills, etc...), does it make sense to enforce a rule that was passed to protect the general public, as a punishment because of financial matters? What good will come out of requiring someone who is current with their skills to re-take an entrance exam they passed already?

You are a CPA and I'm sure you are up to date on your knowledge and skills, do you think you'd be able to walk in cold and pass that nightmare again? :> How many hours did you invest in prep for the first time you passed? I know for me, in total, it was probably close to a

In my thinking at the time (which was very clouded), I could not understand why they wouldn't accept my payments, then simply bill me for whatever late penalty there was? But beyond all of that, I was NEVER made aware that because of overdue payments that I'd be forced to re-sit for the exam. No where is that published, other than in the pages of bylaws of the Board (which I only learned about AFTER the fact). It wasn't with my license renewals, it was told to me over the phone during the several calls I made, it wasn't told to me before, during or after I sat for the exam.

The other day I spoke to someone fairly high up in the NJSCPA who told me that I'd be "amazed" at just how many people this happens to... And how they ALL knew NOTHING about this rule when it happened to them.

But back to your orginal point, I know the system well enought to realize that unless I find someone that knows someone, who knows someone, I might be blowing into the wind.... Then again, if I find a few hundred or a few thousand x-CPA's who had this happen to them and who are willing to get behind this, well then that might lead to a different outcome... Maybe/maybe not... I'm not much of a fan of legal avenues, but sometimes it is the only thing that political appointees understand...

Thanks!

"mark" wrote

The Georgia State Board includes a copy of the licencing laws with each annual renewal. There is no need to have it printed (again) on the application form. If I don't read the law, it's my fault.

No - I do not think I could pass the exam "cold". But I would take whatever measures necessary to get at least "warm" by taking a CPA exam course, self-study, etc.

By adjusting your priorities. And I don't mean to sound flippant, but that is all it takes. Rearrange your life to make time. Sacrifices have to be made to accomplish what you want to accomplish.

Sounds like Georgia is "friendly" to CPA's... maybe I should move on down! :>

of communication to its members, due to other issues as well.

For instance, most CPA's in NJ do not realize that "most" self-study CPE credits only qualify as 50% of NJ requirements, and some that might be an hour's credit won't qualify at all. NASBA passed its recommendations on the matter I think a year or two ago, but from what I'm aware of, NJ is only 1 of 4 regions that are still not recognizing CPE self-study credits at full value... but rather half the value that is stated on the CPE course descriptions. It IS in the bylaws, BUT the only place to find the bylaws is buried on the State's Internet site. We are never sent them.

Being completely honest - if I knew about this 5 year rule, I would not be in this situation. If I EVER had a copy of the bylaws - EVER - I would not be in this situation. So I agree with you again - if information was given, but not read, then shame on me...

About priorities... I guess you are right again. It is just that from someone who currently owns their own business, it is very difficult to think that through... Knowing I already get home at 9-10pm each night and often work on Saturdays... and a new wife...

When I spoke with our State Society of CPAs, they said that most of the people who fall into this problem, choose not to renew and leave the profession entirely. Not the kind of pattern that the accounting industry needs right now, considering the strain that Sarbanes Oxley is placing on the auditing field of practice and the shortage of qualified CPAs...

It isn't that I wouldn't or couldn't pass the exam again, it is more about the principle... I took it and passed all four parts in my first sitting - I know what it takes. It just irks me to no end...

Thanks for your candor.

I fell into a similar situation with theVirginia state board of accountancy some time ago but I just paid the past six years in one lump payment. (I never received any indication the dues were past due, now you get flooded with emails) You should definitely exhaust all possibilities with the board members (not the NJSCPA) before taking the exam again.

Hey Steve,

Thanks for the reply. I've gone the appeals route with the Board of Acct... They denied my request based on "legal advice" from their lawyer (I just love lawyers) - even though I requested it, they did not even grant me an in-person appeal...

Basically they told me they don't want to create any kind of precedent (heaven forbid they make any kind of exception). So now I'm moving up the chain to the State Attorney General and to my local congressmen... I know what Paul is saying in his messages, I just want to try everything option I have first...

The NJSCPA has only been providing me advice and support (well at least the best they can do)

You have nothing to lose by taking this further up the chain of authority, and perhaps everything to gain.

I am not an accountant, so I know little about the licensing process for CPA's. In some professions (like Registered Nurse), in some states (including New Jersey), there is something called "inactive status" where the licensee pays an annual fee to keep the license in force but does not have to meet ongoing CPE requirements, etc. Even if they have that in New Jersey for accountants, I guess the opportunity to do that has long since passed.

And also in some professions, in some states, they offer some type of "retrieval" program where persons who were fomerly licensed can re-enter the profession without having to re-take a licensing exam. I wonder if any states offer that for a CPA license. If so, you could get licensed elsewhere, then later transfer your license to New Jersey. Maybe one of the surrounding states like New York, Pennsylvania, or Delaware offer something like that -- I don't know.

After writing the above, I went to http://www/google.com and did a search for:

CPA "expired licensed"

thanks drew, I will definitely look into the above... Like someone once said "leave no stone unturned" right? Thanks for your message... Mark

JC> You have nothing to lose by taking this further up the chain of JC> authority, and perhaps everything to gain.

The other benefit is that even if you are not successful, you will know how to find the time to study for the exam again, given the time you have invested here. I had a similar thing happen but with taxes. A piece of property we owned went a few years without taxes being paid. When I stepped in, I was willing to pay 90% with the other amount being due in the not too distant future. The taxing authority said no, it was all or nothing. I went back a few years later and discovered it had passed through two auctions and they had received less than I was willing to pay at the time. The moral of the story is the little people that are part of the beauracracy are there for a reason. In most cases, the either hate their job and take it out on everyone else or they love the control of making people beg for what they want and denying them. I apologize if I seem a bit jaded but I have NEVER had a good experience with governmental boards.

Mine was in Washington. I had to have so many CPE's over a certain period of time and take the "Ethics" exam again. I had to pay as well, but my employer was only too happy to do that. I did not have to retake the exam.

No, they do not make it easy, but it has been more than 5 years. I will not let it lapse again! I do not practice public accounting, but do like thos three letters after my name. I am also a CMA and they are MUCH easier to deal with.

Lance Mertz, CPA, CMA Ketchikan, Alaska

that's the thing - I hadn't been practicing either, but still I kept my CPE credits up to date as best I could (and that isn't an inexpensive thing to do, as I'm sure you are aware)... so I guess I'm just a little distraught about how non-payment means re-taking an entrance exam? I just don't see the logic.. thanks. mark

That is how the association executives are able to keep their big offices with those big real wood desks with leather inserts and high-back leather executive chairs. :-)

"Joe Canuck" wrote

The State Societies do not make anything off the exam process. Those are administered by the State Board, who don't get "commissions" based on the number of repeat applicants (else we'd all fail).

I think it is more along the lines of the movement to the five year education requirement, reducing the number of individuals in a labor surplus area.

Actually since the passage of Sarbanes Oxley, the public acctg industry is incurring a shortage of CPA's (due to the increase in auditing work needed due that act's requirements on public companies and their annual audits). And since the accounting scandals of a few years ago (AND the

Fundamentally I agree with the 5-year statute that if you are out-of-practice (out of the industry) for that long, your skills need to be verified. BUT, that is different (in my opinion) to a person who has worked to stay current in their skills AND has proof to that matter, but who has fallen behind on financial dues owed to a governing body. How does "owing money" equate to having to re-take an exam?

"mark" wrote

It doesn't - really. But someone had to draw the line somewhere. After some 20 years, if you had taken CPE and all, coughed up 20 years of dues, should you be expected to be given a certificate? I'm sorry, but that doesn't sound right.

The minor amount of education you might obtain (and retain) from 40 hours of CPE every year is not close enough to equate to what's necessary to pass the exam.

Biannual dues are just $50 in Georgia. I understand that other states might have a significantly higher dues schedule.