savings account

I use the walkup window at my credit union (don't know how to use an ATM, and have no need for such) for what small cash needs we might have, like husband's morning coffee with the guys. I pay my tax bill by check, only because they won't take a credit card. I use a credit card for everything else including groceries, utility bills and insurance payments. I don't know what rewards "points" are, but I suspect they are the same as airline miles, which I am glad to use.

Elizabeth Richardson

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ATMs are handy if you need to get cash after bank hours. They also are more convenient than trying to cash at a bank at which you don't have an account.

-- Ron

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I suppose, but I don't think we go anywhere that won't accept a card. I think the only time we really *need* cash is when we buy a raffle ticket for a non-profit something-or-other.

Elizabeth Richardson

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You must live a much more constrained life than the rest of us. Don't think the food truck where I buy lunch sometimes takes credit cards, nor does the guy who sells books outdoors on a table in Harvard Square. A fair number of shops I visit have posted policies like a $10 minimum for credit card purchases, so you need cash for smaller purchases. I think most of the fast-food chains have been taking cards for quite a while now, but I dunno about the smaller, independent ethnic food counters I see in the local food courts. There are at least two good sit-down ethnic restaurants in my neighborhood that I know don't take cards at all; I think the owners of one of them are muslims who believe such things are sinful. If I need to tip the bellhop or shuttle bus driver when I'm travelling, it's a lot easier to hand him a dollar bill than to figure out how to get him a credit card payment.

And, having an ATM card means you can get the cash for such small purchases pretty much anywhere (even in other countries, in the local currency), anytime, instead of being constrained to visit your own bank during business hours. If you sincerely believe ATM cards are evil, it's your perogative not to use them, but it seems pretty arrogant to assert that *nobody* can possibly have any valid use for them.

-Sandra the cynic

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If you sincerely believe ATM cards are evil,

Wow! I don't think I've ever used the term evil in this newsgroup to describe anything, and I certainly haven't used it in this thread to describe debit cards. The instances you described would be instances for using cash, not a card of any type, so it seems pretty hard for you to somehow assert that using a debit card could be preferable to a credit card.

No, my life isn't as busy as most of you who work for a living, nor those in the lower-48. But planning of any sort - financial, time, parental - takes thought. Going to my credit union to get sufficient cash takes as much planning as do the other things in life. We try to get a month's supply at a time, so we only have to do it once a month. I don't see how that should be a problem for anyone.

Elizabeth

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Well, your assertion was that nobody really needs to buy anything with cash any more, therefore you can just use a credit card all the time and never have to worry about getting cash in an odd place or at an odd time. I'm just pointing out that your assertion is not valid for many of us, so what business do you have telling people who find it convenient to use an ATM card to get cash that no, they should stop doing that and only visit their bank in person during business hours? (As it happens, I use an internet banking service, and don't even know where their nearest branch office even is....)

-Sandra the cynic

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I guess you didn't take the time to read the thread. What I said originally is that I don't understand the need for a debit card, and then stated my reason. You may disagree, but I haven't "asserted" that one does not need cash. In fact, I said that we do use cash. I personally use very little cash, but my husband uses a small amount on an almost daily basis. Neither of us uses a debit card. I maintain that if you're going to use plastic a credit card is a far wiser choice.

Elizabeth Richardson

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I think you are still putting words in her mouth. I just went back over her postings on this subject. The closest I could find is that SHE doesn't need much cash and SHE pays for most things with credit cards.

-- Doug

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Let's have some fun...

The way I understand this program (at least the way I've seen it offered), if your purchase something that costs $x.y (x dollars and y cents), then (100 - y) gets transferred to your savings account. The most that you can ever get with any purchase using this scheme is $0.99. The average is probably closer to $0.50.

If you look at a cash back credit card, most offer at least 1%, some offer 2% on gas groceries, and depending on how much you spend, some cards will give up to 1.5% for everything and

5% on gas and groceries. Anyway, let's go with the 1% for now. To get $0.99 back, you'd have to purchase something that costs $99. To get $0.50, you'd have to spend $50.

So the rules are:

- For any purchase > $99, the cash back credit card wins hands down.

- For any purchase < $50, on average, the "keep the cash" card wins.

- For any purchase > $50, on average, the cash back credit card wins.

Of course, if you have a card offering a higher cash back percentage, say 5% for gas purchase, then you are better off, on average, with the credit card at just a $10 purchase price.

Overall, I think the cash back credit card wins. YMMV.

:-)

Anoop

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I did thread the thread. I went back now and found the specific quotes I was taking issue with. In particular, these are pretty strong and sweeping statements about other people's behavior, coming from someone who admits she doesn't even understand debit cards:

and

When Ron pointed out that some people find debit cards useful for getting cash in odd places at odd times, and you came back with a series of replies that seemed very dismissive of that, with the implication that because *you* don't need to get cash at odd places at odd times, it's still not a valid reason for using a debit card -- we should all just go to the bank once a month like you do:

But isn't withdrawing a month's supply of cash all at once even less optimal than using a debit card for incremental withdrawals throughout the month? You're losing the float on that cash in the meantime. And, just speaking for myself, as a single woman in the city, I'd feel really uncomfortable walking around with that much cash on my person, or keeping it in my home. (I've never been mugged or robbed yet, and don't spend a lot of time worrying about it, but I do take common-sense precautions, and this is one of them.)

So, please: using a debit card makes perfect sense for some of us. It's a convenience, sure, and in the old days we did have to "make do" by going to the bank in person. But taking advantage of convenient new banking features that make life easier is not a sign of financial irresponsibility, IMO. My time is worth something as well, after all!

Additionally, going back to address this complaint:

If you had your way and everybody went to the bank in person instead of using debit cards to make ATM withdrawals, wouldn't *that* increase prices, too? It sure costs the banks more to put human-staffed branches everywhere than ATMs, and they'd have to find some way to pass those costs on to customers. I'm not terribly up on the banking business, but it seems like one reason why the internet banks are offering better interest rates on deposits and lower fees on transactions than brick-and-mortar banks is precisely because they don't have those front-office costs and don't have to handle piles of cash and coins themselves.

-Sandra the cynic

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I'm not so sure of that. Brick and mortar appeal to older folks who are used to higher fees for everything. So they may be just getting more profit from fees (for their Country and Yacht Club dues) than Internet ones.

Chip

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I think that banks spend too much on brick and mortar, but my banks don't charge extra for cashing a check at a teller window(if you don't have an account, they may). Occasionally, I go in the bank to get cash if I want some smaller bills.

-- Ron

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She did say that she doesn't use ATMs, but you seem to be avoiding the distinction between ATM cards and Debit cards (which often double as ATM cards).

There's generally no good reason for someone with passable credit and a little discipline to use a debit card for transactions rather than a credit card. That being the case, there's little reason at all for a debit card - if your bank is willing to give you a regular ATM card instead. Your security will be better (since it cannot be used at a point of sale for a PIN-less transaction like a typical debit card). But you can still get cash from any of a zillion places and at all hours.

Um, using an ATM makes perfect sense. Using a debit card (generally instead of a credit card or your bank's ATM card) doesn't offer any particular advantages with the possible exception of using it at a point of sale (instead of an ATM) to get some extra cash back on a transaction. The tradeoff, again, is a slight security risk (and the potential to have to dispute fraudulent charges while facing bounced checks and such).

Thanks for correcting my understanding...

I guess all of my analysis only applies to the first 3 months, then.

Agreed!

Anoop

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OK, I paraphrased. Here again is the exact quote from your previous post:

"We try to get a month's supply at a time, so we only have to do it once a month. I don't see how that should be a problem for anyone."

Well, I'm done with this thread. You've repeatedly said you don't understand this, and yet attempts to explain that some people simply have different spending patterns and correspondingly different needs for financial services than you do seem to be getting nowhere, so I give up.

-Sandra the cynic

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