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Utilities' rates

Just for curiosity in this age of horrors about global warming, what do others pay for a) electricity and b) water?
Electric: first 1,000 KWH energy - 6.69 cents (per KWH) fuel - 4.6 cents above 1,000 KWH energy - 7.98 cents fuel - 5.6 cents
Water: first 6,000 - 75 cents (per 1,000 gals) next 4,000 - 79 cents above 10,000 - 99 cents base wastewater $12.18 max total (10,000) wastewater $28.28 i.e. for the first 10,000 gals water cost is $7.66 wastewater cost is $28.28 there is no charge or wastewater above 10,000 gals.
Reply to
dapperdobbs
23.3691 cents per kwh! - Not sure if this includes fuel surcharge but it is somehow set up under the notorious concept of cost + fuel which gives them no incentive at all to generate by natural gas for instance, which has plummeted to 1/5 the cost per unit energy. And recent green surcharges hopefully are already included in this lunatic rate - all to no conserving effect since most users aren't submetered, but pay a worst case estimate to an entity (condo or whatever) that has the master meter.
$2.79, 3.36, 5.01 per thousand gals! (separated by breakpoints 13k, 30k)
$68.39 baserate! with some mystery usage rate starting under 2000gal
Welcome to a vision of your future... brought about by loony populist politics, gold plated municipal worker entitlements, and weed-puffing junk science (which in particular overestimates carbon contribution to global warming by several times due to utterly unscientific assumption that water vapor greatly turbocharges the greenhouse effect of CO2, while it actually appears to suppress it).
Reply to
dumbstruck
Wow. I can usually get by on 1,000 KWH, so if I'm reading right:
My town pays about 11.3 cents per KWH, or around $113/ mo (then add taxes to that) Your town pays about 23.4 cents per KWH, or around $230/mo (then add taxes).
My town pays less than $36/mo (using 10,000 gals, exactly) Your town pays $96/mo (using 10,000 gals).
Is your town in Saudi Arabia or Death Valley? Or as you allude, in a desert where rationality is as precious as water?
Reply to
dapperdobbs
Yeah I think I have those figures right, although from the web rather from a bill. I had to double check that water because only the electricity and sewage (soon to rise by another 50% due to EPA ruling) has been jumping recently. Water is usually plentiful, but there is no plan b for droughts so they have jacked up the high gallon rates. The municipality must be a freeloader, because their irrigation for parks, etc just gushes water from broken fittings (park users can disappear in the wet quicksand).
The explanation appears to be broken feedback loops. A respected economist called our cost added arrangement for electricity dysfuctional, and in general close to a Cuban style of running gov't services. Many don't pay by usage due to it being a fixed hidden charge to a middleman owning the meter. People aren't big consumers by nature, so many can muddle along. We have had a population drain by the middle class who might have fought back the needless excess; I hear similar emigration goes on in California to other states, leaving the rich who don't care about such costs and the poor who are either insulated from it or can't easily escape.
Reply to
dumbstruck
Oh gosh, I think I have a better explanation that might even be applicable to other readers. I think our water rates reflect a large cross-subsidy to agricultural water, which is becoming less acceptable nowdays but is sort of a overlooked historical artifact here. Might be worth a few letters to the editor about farmers paying at least half of their fair share!
Our farmer rate is up to 80% less than residential water cost. So I gather our residential rate is way out of line (more than double the norm?) and our ratio of farm to residential rate is also out of line? More proof is that our base residential water rates have been stable for years, compared to exponential electricity and sewage rises - implying the water department is swimming in undeserved money as farms disappear and residential use (and rates) take over.
Reply to
dumbstruck
'Tain't the farmers ... it's the theermeelectric 'lectric'ty. (You alluded to this earlier, with your reference to water vapor and C02 effects.)
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The .pdf file is pretty short, but summarizes. I never realized electric power and water were so closely related (dumb of me), but I wish the summary had explained whether or not that thermoelectric use water is recycled back - hydroelectric power is described as an "in stream" water use, and is not measured.
Most thermoelectric use is located near the coasts or Great Lakes, apparently. I wonder how water available and water costs correlate by State? Anybody here an Agatha Christie fan? This is beginning to look mysterious. It occurs to me that farms may accept recycled water which is not acceptable for homes ("public use").
A few people here predict much higher utilities in years to come, but also much lower cost home solar systems. Planning for utility bills is serious.
Reply to
dapperdobbs
MGE in Madison, WI charges me (with a 5.5% sales tax added on): Electric: Customer Charge: $11.50 energy - 13.275 cents/kWH
Gas: Customer Charge: $10.45 energy: 70.854 cents/Therm -- A gallon of heating oil contains 1.4 therms - making natural gas a good deal.
The city Water Utility charges: $1.93 per 100 Cu Ft -- I don't have my water/sewer bill handy, so I can't give the sewer costs.
-- Ron
Reply to
Ron Peterson
I wonder how water available and water costs correlate by
I think the interesting cases are the transition ones where urbanization has squeezed farm irrigation almost entirely out. Say your water department is getting $100 million in revenue at residential rates. But 20 years ago (ignoring inflation) it was half agricultural, so lets say $50mil residential and 50/5 = $10mil for a total of $60mil revenue for the same amount of water.
Therefore the water department now receives a 66% windfall for the same water, and residential users should demand to have their rates slashed. Or at least expect to be shielded from rate inflation. Another approach is to somewhat raise rates for farmers, who sometimes end up making needlessly water-thirsty crop choices based on water subsidies.
On hydroelectric, we have none although ought to build some just to store energy by pumping uphill. Instead, in the stupidest move yet we are paying to have expensive massive batteries installed to store solar or wind power. This skyrockets costs just for the purposes of paying tribute to the green gods, whereas a switch to natural gas would be more clean overall at a fraction of the cost.
Reply to
dumbstruck
I noticed that a 10%-11% ROI is becoming accepted as a "standard" for regulated utilitites, but my guess is accountants paid to fudge can jiggle numbers up or down to justify rate hikes. Regulators have an important task to fulfill. The excuse for poor performance is the usual one, "Pay more and you'll attract better regulators." And one gets the "if it works at all, be happy" mentality and some awfully odd- looking rate structures (like your baseline water charge).
In another State, my cousin has to pay the water company for rainwater runoff from his roof. I asked for a separate meter for my lawn. You wouldn't believe the line of BS I got explaining why that wasn't possible. The utility recently got a rate increase (to bring their ROI to 11%.) I'm not ready to start a revolution over 'nomenclature' but there's some weird stuff we should pay attention to, like the batteries you mentioned. Sometimes all it takes is a phone call.
Reply to
dapperdobbs

Just for curiosity in this age of horrors about global warming, what do others pay for a) electricity and b) water?
Electric: first 1,000 KWH energy - 6.69 cents (per KWH) fuel - 4.6 cents above 1,000 KWH energy - 7.98 cents fuel - 5.6 cents
Water: first 6,000 - 75 cents (per 1,000 gals) next 4,000 - 79 cents above 10,000 - 99 cents base wastewater $12.18 max total (10,000) wastewater $28.28 i.e. for the first 10,000 gals water cost is $7.66 wastewater cost is $28.28 there is no charge or wastewater above 10,000 gals.
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I'm in Ontario Canada so my numbers will prolly different from the norm but here goes:
Electricity: 5.1 cents per kwhr 10 pm to 7 am weekdays and all weekend long 9.9 cents per kwhr 7 am to 10am and 6pm to 10 pm 7 cents per kwhr 10 am to 6 pm
Natural Gas 23.38 cents per cubic metre. 1 cubic meter equals 35.31 cubic feet or 264.17 gallons
water: $20.00 a month PLUS 1.73 cents per cubic metre. 1 cubic metre equals 35.31 cubic feet or 264.17 gallons
Gasoline price is 111.9 cents per litre. 3.78 Litres is equal to 1 US gallon
we have no wastewater charges like they do in the USA
Reply to
The Henchman
(Thanks, and for the conversion of cubic feet to gallons.)
I'm not sure if you mean $20 plus 6.55 cents per 1,000 gals (i.e. even 100,000 gals costs $20 + $6.55 = $26.55) or if you mean $1.73 per 264.17 gals or $6.55 per 1,000 gals - expensive! Water costs seem to vary quite a bit, not all easily explainable
I found a table for electric costs per US State within about 5 mins
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I have yet to find a similar table for water costs
Reply to
dapperdobbs

(Thanks, and for the conversion of cubic feet to gallons.)
I'm not sure if you mean $20 plus 6.55 cents per 1,000 gals (i.e. even 100,000 gals costs $20 + $6.55 = $26.55) or if you mean $1.73 per 264.17 gals or $6.55 per 1,000 gals - expensive! Water costs seem to vary quite a bit, not all easily explainable
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In most of Ontario water services are provided by local governments, whether they are towns, cities or counties. Mine is run by a county.
We pay $20.00 per month for a connection fee (residential) plus $1.72 per cubic metre of usage between 0 m3 and 25 m3. between 26 m3 and 45 m3 we pay $1.85 per m3. over 46 m3 and it's $1.98 per m3 My bill states that water usage between sept 1st and october 31st was 56 cubic meters OR 14793 gallons for a consumption charge of $97.08 . Connection fee was $40.00 (20.00 per month) for a total 2 month water bill of $138.94 BEFORE 13% sales tax.
We had our pool closed sept 20th.
We do not pay wastewater charges from a residence.
Reply to
The Henchman

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