to zMan (and others...) - ebilling worth it vs mail statements?

I'm with zman.

Have discontinued all paper statements [bank, cc, mortgage, investment accts, etc.] where I'm given the option. In migrating to online services over the past few years, found myself piling up, and eventually filing, paper statements that I had not even bothered to open. Have boxes of paper, some 20+/- years old, stashed in the basement, in the attic and in the garage and occassionally think about getting rid of them.

Very rarely print a statement unless I'm having trouble tracking down a discrepancy with my QW records - then don't keep the paper copy.

With good backup procedures, feel very comfortable with electronic records.

Hi Andrew. I've been receiving and paying bills online for a couple of years, including credit cards and all utilities. Use quicken for all transactions and backup quicken at least once daily to a CD and also to one of those portable HD things. Can't think what it's called right now. Keep the statements in a separate file for each entity and also keep those backed up. Don't print anything that's not necessary. So far, so good. A little nervy to get started, but have to get modern sometime.

I have slowly migrated to online billing. If you reallly look at your bills, some statements are useless anyway such as a cellphone bill. The statements you want you can easily printout yourself. Once I upgraded to Q-2006 I was amazed how many financial instiutions have export to Quicken capabilities and as a result made it easier to keep track of where my money is going to. I always use my credit card for purchases because of the airline mile rewards. It was virtually impossible to keep track of things. Now most of it is put in categories etc. What isn't recognized as being a part of specific category I can categorize myself and then it will be done afterwards automatically my Quicken. The downside to online billing is that there is so much spam in my e-mail I have to really watch carefully so I don't delete any statements. Of course you could create a new e-mail address to have all your bills go to and also the reminders are a great way to not miss out on any bills. Thats my two cents worth.

Andrew" wrote in message news:dp4bf.59$ snipped-for-privacy@fe12.lga...

eBilling is better in all respects, when available. For me, it is part of an overall 'paper-free' approach. Through about the end of 2001, I had maintained manila folders for all my important correspondence, bills, bank statements. I had many years worth of folders, most of which had been transferred to a Westy's storage facility. The utility value of such paper files was very limited. It had become increasingly difficult to locate what I needed, and the storage situation was a real mess.

In 2002, I started scanning all my documents. I gradually picked up the pace, and within about a year, I had no more paper files. Now, when I receive an invoice, I pay it, scan, it and shred it. I have had none of the manila folders since 2002. If you go through all my stuff, you will find no folder with 2003, 2004 or 2005 dates. Documents I receive on paper are always shredded within 1-2 days. As an example, when I receive my Hartford automobile insurance policy, which is about 30-40 double sided pages, it gets scanned and shredded the same day.

Getting bills online is a natural extension of the paperless way of life. It has two advantages: (1) the materials don't need to be shredded because they are never received, and (2) materials received in electronic format have been created from the original source materials, so they contain editable text. Why do I care? Because such documents are searchable. Scanned documents are graphic images, in which there is no text. No, I don't bother OCR'ing them. It would be a total waste of time, and would take hundreds of times longer than it takes me to simply scan the document.

I have experienced a significant increase in the number and types of documents I can receive in electronic format. Until a few months ago, I had to receive my Citibank statements on paper. Then, they notified me that I could discontinue paper statements, and download them in PDF format (note that check images must be downloaded separately, and these pages inserted into the bank statement PDF if you want to have a complete record - I scan my deposited items and insert those, as well.). American Express has had paper free billing available for much longer, and I was amongst the first to sign up. There are still quite a few credit cards I must receive on paper, and scan and shred, but as times goes on, it will be fewer and fewer.

An additional benefit is backup. If I were to have a fire or other such calamity, all my paper files would be lost. With electronic files, I can easily make a backup copy and store it in my office, which is a distance away, or in my safe deposit box. Quicken 6 let's me attach documents, so now I have an additional form of back up because I store my Quicken backups off site, and always attach check images and statements.

When storing electronic documents, it is important to establish a meaningful and consistent naming convention and folder structure, so that you can search for what you need. Once you get used to doing so, it is quite easy.

Maintaining electronic records in general is a great step up in efficiency. As an example, I had purchased a couple of pairs of shoes and could not remember when. Since I have been using Quicken since 1/1/95, I was able to search for the word 'shoes' and determine that I bought these two pairs of shoes at Bostonian on 5/4/01. I would NOT be able to easily locate that invoice since I have not been comprehensively scanning that far back, but as we go forward, it will be easier and easier to find such purchase info.

I should point out the having the proper equipment is essential to maintain efficiency. I always purchase the most recent version of Adobe Acrobat (now using Professional 7.0), and have a Ricoh Aficio scanner that does 35 pages per minute double sided. I would not be able to afford the time to scan that Hartford auto insurance policy without a good scanner. Speaking of time, it does take some to maintain this system. Every document that is scanned is routed to my computer with a nonsense name comprising my first name, the date, and a string of numbers. Each document must be opened to determine what it is, then closed, named, and filed in the proper area in my computer. However, there is a time factor in finding paper files, if they can even be located, and I would rather expend the time upfront on the scanning and electronic filing.

Hope this helps other understand the value of maintaining electronic records. I certainly like the concept!

I use on-line billing whenever possible. Many of them will let you get both and stop the paper later. It works great. As to statements, just about every credit card, bank and brokerage I use has statements and/or bills on line.

I agree that using on-line bills and statements only is leaving yourself exposed to problems later. Instead of generating paper, what I do is I "print" the statements and bills that are on line to PDF files on my hard drive. I use a program called "Karen's Replicator" (from KarenWare) to automatically back them up to a separate logical drive. I then use BackupMyPC to back up my hard drive to an external USB hard drive weekly. Frankly, it's easier for me to find documents that are stored electronically than paper ones....... ;-)

I have enjoyed reading all the replies supporting online bill statements, bill paying and record keeping. I, too, have been moving in that direction, but haven't made the complete leap.

One issue I wonder about, is what would happen if something happened to you, and your wife, significant other, children, etc., had to pick up where you left off? Would they be able to open all the files, understand where things are filed and backed up, or be able to find all the information you have so faithfully stored and backed up? What provisions have any of you made for this eventuality? At least with hardcopy records and statements, they would have something they could locate and dig through. Not sure my wife or children would be able to find all my electronically stored information.

Chuck

Andrew wrote:

I have a one inch binder that includes that kind of information and what my wife and kids need to do at my demise. I call it my "croak" book.

Another side of this and maybe off topic is the associated "repeat online payments". I still get paper invoices from my insurance companies (life, long term care, homeowners, ety) but toss them in the waste paper basket. With repeating online payments, these will automatically be paid even if I'm in a coma. Thus, the insurance will not be canceled due to lack of payment.

Chuck wrote:

I too am enjoying reading about everyone's "systems." Here's my story:

I started receiving and paying bills quite a few years ago, when my utility companies first offered to do ACH transactions from my checking account. As companies started putting up their own web sites where I could switch my payment method to a credit card (that pays a cash dividend), I scheduled payments that way. Now I receive all bills and statements electronically. I use PaperPort 10 to save the statements as PDF files. I don't bother saving credit card statements, but perhaps I should.... Incidentally, it now takes me over four years to use up two boxes of checks!

When I do my taxes, I "print" a PDF of both federal and state and save those in my PaperPort folder structure. Probably because of habit, I still print a paper copy and file that with my Quicken tax report and all pertinent receipts. (I use TaxAct, so having that Quicken report makes doing my taxes much simpler.) I have a flatbed scanner, so scanning large documents would be painful, but I do scan some things, and if I scan regularly, the job is relatively painless. I'm scanning more and more documents as time goes on. As others have mentioned, it's simpler for me to find the electronic copies of statements, etc. However, being a single person living alone, if I were to take a dirt nap, my friends and family might have some difficulty in figuring out my system. For my own ease of use, I use Password Agent to store web addresses and their respective logins. That file is encrypted with a master password. I have written a document that goes along with my will, and it has a brief description of my system as well as instructions on how to run Password Agent and open the file using my master password.

I use Moon Software's Backup Magic to schedule daily (data only) backups to both an internal secondary hard drive as well as an external USB2.0 drive. I've also scheduled a weekly backup to a second machine. I use Acronis True Image 9.0 to periodically create images of the boot/system partitions on both machines, and these images are stored on a second drive on each machine. In addition, the latest image is also copied to the opposite machine. Barring data corruption that makes it into multiple backups, I should be able to completely restore either or both systems (including data) in a matter of minutes. I used to do periodic backups which I stored at my office. However, I became disabled a little over a year ago, thus ending my off-site storage. I should get off my duff and either get a safe deposit box or arrange to store DVD backups at a friend's house in case of fire or other disaster. Since the hurricanes, Suze Orman is recommending that we all send vital info in paper form to friends or relatives in another part of the country. That I have not done ... though I know I should.

Regards,

Margaret

This is VERY important, and almost no one does it. I started developing such a book a couple of months ago, but it will still be a while before it is complete. A couple of things to keep in mind:

(1) The location of your computer based financial records is very important. Your estate administrator (wife, adult child, attorney, etc) should know where your records are stored. You could even burn a DVD periodically and provide a copy to one of these individuals. Some folks store some of their financial records in their office, and this should be carefully noted, right down to which desk drawer has them. Once you are gone, all they will have a guesswork, unless you prepare properly and comprehensively

(2) It is essential that you create a master list of all your passwords, for Quicken, banks, email accounts, etc. If something should happen to you (death or serious disability), your representatives would need to access your accounts quickly. Most ISP's won't provide an email account password except to the original user, so if you fail to make a record, a court order might be needed. This could be time consuming and expensive

I know we have gone a tad off topic, but this is a financial forum, and safeguarding one's financial records, particularly as more and more records are maintained in electronic format, is crucial.

To both you and Arnie (who stated the same thing....) - I started this thread, I'm one of the oldest continuosly posting people here, so I say to both "Don't worry about it!".

"One of the oldest"? Not to be argumentative, but I am certainly older than you are. I am VERY old (in addition to being very off-topic).

Me too - a depression baby.

You may very well be. I didn't say I was the oldest, so I certainly don't take offense. Of course, anyone born in or after 1964 is all the same *computer* age, since that's when the modern computer was born, in which we all take a humble part (like being part of this community) of being. (and that is a not too subtle troll....I admit it.) - now this is REALLY offtopic.

Young or old, you can still be wrong.

OKKKKKKKKAY....not sure what that's about...but anyway....

Getting back to the thread, I did take the big jump and signed up for VISA electronic ebills through my credit union's website (as said earlier, I think it's being driven by Checkfree). I received an email indicating my bill is available (perhaps a duplicate of the last paper one.).

BUT - when I hit the ICON to see, it directed me to the Citibank website where I had to log in, with some note about not having a direct connection between the CF site and Citibank for the purpose of viewing the actual bill. Don't like the sound of this....I thought the point would be for a single consolidated place to do everything.

If this means having to log onto multiple places (perhaps the larger institutions that can handle infrastructure on their own?), I don't like this.

Well, I'll report later...perhaps it takes some getting used to.

Same w/amex receive notification from bank that bill is available but must go to amex site to obtain; as I am anal re: reconciling cc bills I do take these extra steps. There are some bills I prefer to receive USP.

I am inconvenienced if I have to receive paper bills, as I have to scan and shred them. With respect to obtaining electronic statements, I always have to log into the vendors site and download the bill. As you indicated, Amex is a very good example. At least Amex provides the EXACT same bill you would get on paper. Others usually don't. It appears that vendors are concerned about security, so they remind you by email, but you most acuire the statement at their site. It would be nice is there existed a service that would collect all your bill and let you retrieve them all in one place. Even so, protecting one's personal information would still be a concern.

Actually, Amex is the only ebill that I must go to the site to receive; the bank (USAA) notifies me of ebills, the due date & am't owed. I go to the bank web pay site to see the bill. Most are available in pdf. The issue w/USAA is that they have dropped the ability to pay bills through qkn though they still download cleared trasnactions.

Take a look at DataMills' Relative Rev Backup, which will let you automate protection for your data by keeping a backup history that goes months back.

You will be able to instantly recover lost/corrupted files/folders from many months before.

-- Joe Rom King