Estimated Tax Forms

You can get 1040ES instsructions and vouchers at

Ed gave you the practical answer.

The specific answer to your last question, "if you used a professional who filed paper ..." is that the very fact you've used a professional suggests you will do so again for your next return. Since the professional has access to all necessary forms, the IRS saves money by not bothering to send you _anything_ which you might need to file.

(In a sense, it can be seen as professional courtesy: i.e., the IRS doesn't want to seem to be "poaching" by suggesting you could have a direct relationship with them, since you have already demonstrated you have a business arrangement with someone else -- and especially since that someone is generally acting as an _agent_ in support of the IRS.)

Bill

"Bill" wrote

Wait a minute. I surely don't consider myself "an _agent_ in support of the IRS".

I am an advocate for my client, within the boundaries of the law. My client pays me, not the IRS. My client expects me to do what's right by them, meaning that they expect me to keep their tax bill as low as possible given the law and the information they provide to me.

As far as the IRS not sending forms to taxpayer who use a professional tax preparer, I would think that in addition to the cost savings, it reduces much confusion on the part of the taxpayer who gets these blank forms and calls 1) the IRS, 2) the tax preparer or most likely 3) both.

If you're asking about 2009 estimated taxes, Form 1040-ES for 2009 won't be available until sometime early next year. When IRS releases it, you will find it posted in the following folder:

Condor

Thank you for reading my question!

So, if you used a professional who filed paper, you DO NOT get an estimated form from the IRS.

I have searched dozens of sites, and cannot find that documented anywhere. Can you give me a reference? Thanks.

snipped-for-privacy@bellsouth.net (Paul Thomas, CPA) posted:

Indeed, I agree as to your function and your allegiance. But (and maybe I should have added this) _in the mind of the IRS_, you are "generally" acting as an _agent_, since you assist taxpayers in complying with filing requirements.

FWIW, I'm a volunteer preparer with TaxAide, and I certainly feel my commitment is to assist the folks who come to me for help, but I also know the IRS considers all TaxAide people as "instruments of their purpose" to ensure full and faithful compliance with their regulations.

I know that, because IRS instructors have stated as much. That's why they support us with training and materials.

Bill

snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.org (jack) posted:

My source was my state coordinator for TaxAide. We were receiving complaints from taxpayers, that they were not receiving their forms any more. I posed the question to him, and he checked with his liaison at IRS, who explained it was a simple expense-reduction decision, based on the calculation that the odds favor a TP who seeks professional aid, will return to the same source in the future.

They have apparently also done studies that show that once someone has discovered TaxAide, they'll continue to use it.

And incidentally, once the TP goes back to filing their own return, they will start receiving forms again. (And my source for that is my own experience. I was using TaxAide forms to make sure my site received credit for filing my personal Form. Once I discovered the policy, I just used a plain form, and the next year I received the normal package.)

Bill

I still don't see where use of a paid preparer (one who has to sign the return) is of any relevance. It's paper vs. e-filing, AFAIK.

And incidentally, the major commercial players for individual tax prep have all decided to no longer charge extra e-filing fees. If you use software for your return prep, whether self-prepared or by a volunteer or a paid preparer, the last major excuse for not e-filing has now been eliminated.

What exactly is the problem you are trying to solve? What do you want to know beyond what is clearly stated on page 1 of the 2008 Form 1040-ES instructions?

The past is no guarantee of the future.

-Mark Bole

In article , snipped-for-privacy@pacbell.net (Mark Bole) writes: | Bill wrote: | > snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.org (jack) posted: | > | >>> The specific answer to your last question, "if | >>> you used a professional who filed paper ..." | | [...] | | >> So, if you used a professional who filed paper, | >> you DO NOT get an estimated form from the | >> IRS. | | I still don't see where use of a paid preparer (one who has to sign the | return) is of any relevance. It's paper vs. e-filing, AFAIK.

I've never e-filed or used a preparer and they still stopped sending me estimated tax forms...

Dan Lanciani ddl@danlan.*com

Mark Bole wrote in news:izSIk.5365$ snipped-for-privacy@nlpi066.nbdc.sbc.com:

I won't send my return through a third party, but maybe that is not considered a "major excuse".

scott s. ..

Okay, I think you saved the day, Bill.

But we Enrolled Agents, EA's, want to make darn sure the public knows the difference, as I'm sure you do.

So for any laymen reading this, there are "agents", and then there are "Enrolled Agents" (EA's). Any one can be an agent for another, whether serving under a power of attorney or in other cases. In this respect, volunteers for AARP, TaxAide, etc etc serve as "agents" of the IRS to insure compliance.

As an EA however, I am ONLY an agent of the taxpayer/client and licensed as such by the IRS with conduct governed by the U S Treasury under certain regulations known as Circular 230.

Hope this helps to keep things straight.

Actually we EA's have been batting this gamecock around for years now, arguing time to time for other possible designations that would make sure the public doesn't somehow mistake us for "agents" OF the IRS. But no one can come up with a generally accepted agent position (GAAP!) or definition.

ChEAr$, Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA

But an Enrolled Agent

Unless you use tax software to do it. In my own case I naturally use my office software to prepare my own return and I, too, was deleted from the 1040es mailings. So that is how I surmised is wasn't dependent on using a paid preparer, or even a volunteer preparer e.g. AARP, but instead tax software. I suppose if I download blank 1040ES forms and resume hand printing same for my quarterly payments, I might regain the status of being on their mailing list.

Anyway, for clients who noticed this last year, I calmly explained to them that the reason they didn't receive printed vouchers was that IRS had placed them in the "FOH" status. Huh? FOH? Sure, I explained; Friend of Harlan.

Ain't that the truth! (as I return from vacation and reluctantly update my retirement accounts' spreadsheet.)

ChEAr$, Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA

But you did use tax softare, right?

ChEAr$, Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA

And welcome home, World Traveller. I'll bet ouzo doesn't compare to scotch.

In article , snipped-for-privacy@bellsouth.net (Harlan Lunsford) writes: | Dan Lanciani wrote: | > In article , snipped-for-privacy@pacbell.net (Mark Bole) writes: | > | Bill wrote: | > | > snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.org (jack) posted: | > | > | > | >>> The specific answer to your last question, "if | > | >>> you used a professional who filed paper ..." | > | | > | [...] | > | | > | >> So, if you used a professional who filed paper, | > | >> you DO NOT get an estimated form from the | > | >> IRS. | > | | > | I still don't see where use of a paid preparer (one who has to sign the | > | return) is of any relevance. It's paper vs. e-filing, AFAIK. | > | > I've never e-filed or used a preparer and they still stopped sending | > me estimated tax forms... | | But you did use tax softare, right?

No, just my Uniball pen and a non-programmable TI calculator from the 70's.

Dan Lanciani ddl@danlan.*com

It's a toss up as long as you drink both of them straight.

It never occurred to me that purchases made at a duty-free store were subject to use tax.

Dick

Don't know about your state, but NY wants its cut. You bought it without paying sales tax and brought it into the state.

(Unless of course you're talking about cigarettes from the reservation smoke shop. We don't try very hard to collect those taxes. )

American Indians deserve our support - afterall they have been fighting terrorism and illegal immigration since 1492.

Dick