Daylight Savings Time

You're not on Daylight Saving Time. You have just left it in favour of GMT.

Neb

We have had in the past, with all the government meddling, British Standard Time, which was one hour ahead of GMT, and later abandoned. If business thinks the hour difference is costing them trade, then why don't they change their working hours? It don't matter what the clocks say.

Tiddy Ogg.

In message , pancho writes

'Daylight savings time' (as you put it) has no effect on the time differential with europe.

Have you asked this same question in a Portuguese or Eire newsgroup?

What, CET? - which doesn't include the above, the UK and a whole bunch of Eastern European Countries in Europe/EU.

One wonders how the US has become the biggest market with at least six timezones.

My company does a lot of business with other European countries and the different time zone really isn't a problem. You just have to remember to make sure you phone before 4 pm, which really isn't too much of a hardship.

Now if you want to talk about the cost of doing business with the rest of Europe, you could start talking about the euro...

Adam

But it does matter what the clocks say and if you really believe this not to be true then I suggest you read up on a bit of the history into why the whole country now keeps the same time when once it did not.

It only matters what the clocks say if it creates confusion. If everyone knows that they're an hour out there's no confusion. In fact there might be more confusion from not knowing each other's normal working practices. There might, for example be an additional hour's difference because in Germany they might normally work 8-4 instead of 9-5. Or they might be less contact oiverlap because in Spain they take a 3 hour lunch break.

I thought that had something to do with making sure that railway timetables could work? Hardly relevant these days now that they've abandoned all pretence at that anyway.

Adam

Nice one.

Stupid is as stupid does. :-p

Exactly.

But it just isn't that simple, is it and that statement simply confirmed that you have failed to think the problem through.

You make work 9 'til 5 but on planet Earth different businesses have differing business hours and "normal" just doesn't exist.

By moving clock time wholesale, everyone automatically shifts but by saying "oh let's imagine the clocks have changed" you are leaving it to individuals, businesses, schools, and broadcasting companies to do their own thing and that, my friend. is where your plan fails as if that worked we would never have needed countrywide time in the first place as everyone would know they need to add an hour on or off depending on how far they are from the meridian.

Same problem, same solution - make time common and let automatically glide into place, make it a variable and it will just end up as a confused mess.

You do know how far away you live from the meridian don't you......?

John Boyle writes

It makes a difference when you have family in the Antipodes. ;-) Changing clocks is a PITA, so I leave time switches at GMT and adjust On/OF as sunset time slides. Quite a few devices now change automatically, and soon the all will, hopefully.

Yes it *is* that simple. In Canada/US with their (mainly) four time zones it would be utter confusion to be carrying on coast-to-coast business in if what you say were true.

That was rather my point. If my UK business works 9-5 and my colleagues in Central Europe work 8-4 (both local times) then I know I won't be able to phone them after 3pm because I know I have to allow *both* for the fact that local time is an hour out but also that working practice is an additional hour out.

But I'm not saying "oh let's imagine the clocks have changed". I'm saying that if we want to interact in real time, by phone, fax, email, what have you, then we need to be aware before making contact of whether the other side is going to be available to be interacted with. Their and our normal practices are as much of an issue to be aware of as the zone time difference, if any. Basically it's as good as irrelevant what time it is. If you're in London and want to talk to someone in Hong Kong or Vancouver, then you need to know the time difference anyway, on top of negotiating over which of you will make the sacrifice of making themselves available out of normal working hours.

I'm not sure whether you're saying the whole EU (or world, for that matter) ought to keep the same time everywhere, or merely that it should switch between summer and winter time at the same time. The latter has already happened, though it hasn't (even recently) always been the case.

It's borderline whether Europe is geographically small enough to justify the former. It isn't terribly sensible for Spain and the UK (which are basically in the same range of meridians) not to keep the same time, it seems the Spaniards are more friends with the French than with the Portuguese, since Portugal keeps UK time whereas Spain keeps the same time as France and Germany etc. But Greece, I gather, is too far East to keep CET.

I know that when I go sailing I'm 5 and a bit degrees West of the Greenwich meridian. It doesn't make me set my watch to GMT plus

20 minutes (or BST plus 20 minutes as the case may be), it simply means that I know to expect sun and moon to rise and set some 20 minutes later than my tables tell me they will.

"Ronald Raygun" wrote

Didn't you pick two of the wrong sorts of communication there, for "real time"?

OK, phone is "real time" -- but for either fax or email, the person receiving the communication does not need to be around at the same time as the person sending it.

That is one of the real advantages of fax/email over phone sometimes!

No.

Of course it is, but sometimes you want to get written communication turned around quickly, and if you know there is a person at the other end poised to pounce on your fax, sign it and send it back, or to deal with your email enquiry and respond urgently, then you know you can expect a reply probably within minutes. But if you know he isn't there (because office hours are wrong and you haven't made special arrangements), you'll know not to bate your breath. And if you don't know, you might end up blue in the face.

But the clocks are all telling different times. To use your example the clocks would all need to be telling the same time and people would just "know" that they needed to add on or take off a hour this way, or that way.

Yep, would be total chaos, and I thank you for using an example that so satisfactorily presents my position.

You seem to see the whole world in the context of the bubble in which you exist, and how it works for you and your business.

"How can people who cannot think inside the box be expected to think outside of it?"

It does nothing of the sort. In Canada/US the clocks *do* show 4 or more different times and there *isn't* total chaos.

By saying there would be utter confusion if what you said were true I was trying to demonstrate, given that there isn't utter confusion, that what you said isn't true.

We're obviously not on the same wavelength here. Am I misunderstanding you when I think that you would be in favour of all of North America keeping just one single time zone, because it would avoid confusion? I don't think it would, on the contrary I think it would create it.

Definitely not. We gave GMT to the world and this stupidity of moving the clocks must stop eventually when those fools responsible can be convinced that it is all a waste of time and money.

Bitstring , from the wonderful person Stickems. said

Actually before then I figure we'll circularise the orbit and straighten out the tilt, and then everything will be peachy. We can move a bit further from the fire at the same time .. difficult, but still got be easier than persuading some Americans that Global Warming exists... 8>.