Money Laundering Regs - "two pieces of ID"

Um, quite a lot, I think. But that would take us off into thread drift territory :-)

Asking me to send copies (or even worse, originals) of personal ID documents (whether passport, utility bill or whatever) through the post exposes me to the risks of deliberate ID theft and of the incompetence of a bank that loses them, fails to return them, or whatever. Asking me to get a "professional" person to certify those documents creates hassle, favour begging, and/or cost.

Whereas an Experian check done by the bank exposes me to none of those risks or costs. They utilise information already collected from me, or about me, and held by a reliable (?) central agency. It avoids what to me seems unnecessary information duplication, and that, to me at least, feels "useful", or less wasteful of everyone's time.

Quite. It's just the satisfaction of being able to tell a call centre bod exactly why it's their policy, and not the law itself, that's preventing them from getting my business :-)

Which is exactly the approach I try to take :-)

Royal Bank of Scotland? If so, that might explain what happened to me, a long customer of theirs. I went into "my" branch, which I often visit, where I'm well known, and asked to start up a third account, already having had two for years. I correctly identified myself by knowing all my personal details, the secret passwords of my accounts, etc., but neverthless, the assistant, who knows me as a frequent customer, made me go away and find "two *separate* kinds of ID", i.e., two utility bills addressed to me wouldn't do.

They did apologise, and did agree that these procedures were making life more awkward for me than for a terrorist, but said their hands were tied by anti-terrorist legislation.

It's a really ingenious trick these terrorists have pulled. Scare people with a few big bombs, and then they run about like headless chickens paralysing their own economy with demented bureaucracy.

"A Dodger" wrote

One problem with just a simple Experian/Equifax check, is that the checker can't know for sure that you *are* the person they are checking up on.

For instance, a terrorist could quite easily say that he is "Roger Morton", then the bank checks Experian (say) for "Roger Morton" and finds he is an OK guy. Should the terrorist now be given an account in your name?

Do the regulations state that the ID has to be in form of a document? Otherwise, could you not produce a pin, prick your thumb (or finger) and press it onto the form. That way you are providing 2 forms of ID, DNA and fingerprint, both of which identify you far more reliably than any documentation?

There's maybe a difference between trying to open an account in person at a bank branch, and trying to do it by post.

My recent experience with Northern Rock was by post; they had an application form and a cheque from me, and the evidence of their debt to me (the bond certificate) was posted to the address that they'd checked out with Experian. For that process to work for a terrorist, he'd have to be living at my address, or else have a corrupt postman in tow.

If instead I'd gone to a (not very) local branch of Northern Rock they would, according to their website, have asked me for the standard two pieces of ID. That's perhaps in part because it must be a bit tricky for their counter staff to do Experian checks, and also because they'd be handing the bond certificate across the counter rather than getting the postman to deliver it through my letterbox - so yes, there'd be a much greater risk of a terrorist impersonating me, I guess.

No, although it has to capable of being recorded or copied somehow. See John Boyle's post about the Joint Money Laundering Steering Group guidelines - that's where I suspect they originate from, but institutions are still free to decide on their own rules.

Wouldn't you need a reference sample held somewhere? I think that might work once we've all got criminal records and the cops have got all our fingerprints and DNA on file.

Scripsit Richard Faulkner

And, just as intriguing, what about it serves in any way to "identify" the random guy presenting it?

Any seriously bad guy with money to launder should not find it difficult to bribe a clerk at the water work's accounts receivable office for a few pieces of blank invoice stationery. Failing that, bribe someone who owns an offset press.

Or just buy a reasonably decent laser printer (which is cheap enough that the money for it do not need to be laundered in the first place) and print your own utility bills wholesale. Might take a few tries with a water spray and a dustbrush to de-gloss the coloured logo at the top if you can't get matte toner, but then you're all set with one "piece of ID", with a name and address of your choice.

In message , Henning Makholm wrote

Or just print one yourself on your laser printer after scanning in any logos.

Or even download the logo off the internet!

cd

100% correct. I have just opened an account with a bank which asked for a huge amount of stuff. My present business bank is now asking for a load more stuff but I have been there for 5 years!