Anyone any ideas on how to solve this puzzle? A 75 year old man owns a house and a small retail business consisting of two shops.
He has three children, the oldest a girl who knows nothing about business, a middle son and a younger son. The middle son runs the shop business with his wife and it requires a lot of 'hands on ' effort. The younger son also works there, but is not energetic enough to be involved with anything significant.
Without the middle son and his wife's consistant involvent and very hard work, the business would just run down.
The father is wanting to be fair to all three children in his will, but is so undecided about what to do that he just cannot make a will.
One can only guess at the confusion and possible ill will which may arise unless a will or some kind of decision is made.
Would anyone have come across a similar situation before? Grateful for any advice.
The father needs to make sure that he won't be a burden to his children and provide for his retirement and possible nursing home care.
I would suggest that the father sell the business to his older son and buy a lifetime annuity with the proceeds if he is healthy. He than can give each child the same amount (up to $12,000 gift tax limit?) to each child with the income that he doesn't spend.
"john hamilton" wrote in news:iak1q8$hef$ snipped-for-privacy@news.eternal-september.org:
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Asuming that there's no significant familly issues then the best place to start would be by them all sitting around a table and having a chat on the subject. Sounds a bit gory but it's probably the best way, that way when the time comes everyone already knows what he or she will be getting and because it will have been agreed in advance there will be very little scope for infighting.
I've put everything of value in a trust, to be divided equally among survivors. There's little likelihood that there will be fighting over nic-nacs or cookware. My cremation is paid for, and there's a generous party fund as well. No loose ends that I can see.
Lol. Well do you mean it worked for someone else in your family, or do you mean you're hoping it will work for your beneficiaries when it comes to actually carving up the pie?
This eventually to die guy needs to do two things and, in light of his age and of his even if so far only fearfully tentative desire emotionally to anticipate his eventual death and to plan realistically for his post-death estate, do so promptly:
First, discuss frankly with his wife and with his children - you do indicate that they are all functioning adults, right? - whatever it is that he now presumes would be fair and decide soon after taking into account such one-with-one or maybe collective conversations what he concludes would be fair.
Second, if he does not have a relationship with such an advisor already, find and consult in FACT SPECIFIC DETAIL with an attorney or, if he is in the U.K., a solicitor or at least an accountant or sophisticated business advisor experienced in dealing with these sorts of questions and whose judgment he has reason to trust
Or maybe he ought do the second alternative first and the first suggested alternative second. But your apparent assumption that you or, if he is someone other than you, he will be able to obtain actually reliable advice beyond suggestions that he consult with his family, that he find and consult with a knowledgeable and experienced professional, and that he make a will substantially sooner rather than later is at best misplaced.
In other words, it is you who says that what you so far post only allows a reader to guess about later confusion and ill will that possibly could result if this eventually to die person continues to feel unable to make a will to the point that he also continues to choose not to do so. And so if you ask readers for more than the suggestions above - in particular, about what they might guess about what only possibly might be fair - you ought reconsider the rationality of you asking for advice based only on speculation
Perhaps worse or at least as a further complication, the heading of your posting indicates that you solicit advice mostly from U.K. related newsgroup respondents although you also post to a newsgroup whose readers and posters are mostly U.S. based.
But surely this eventually to die guy is at least minimally aware that estate administration procedures, practices and expenses and that post-death tax obligations and other financial considerations not merely are in many way different in the U.K. than in the U.S., and vice versa, but also can differ from one location to another within the U.S. or within the U.K.? And if he is not aware of these common realities, then he should be. But you do not post any information about where he resides and probably will die or about where his business is located and you ask for advice anyway.
And, by the way, I refer more than once to this fellow as an eventually person because folks who are knowledgeable and experienced in advising people about and in otherwise dealing with the sorts of issues to which you refer including tenaciously adhered to commitments for self-paralysis know that such intellectual and emotional stasis very frequently results more from a fear of dying also not uncommonly aggravated by a kind of superstition to the effect that making a will will Seal One's Fate or possibly even Hasten One's Death than from not having a pretty good sense of what would and would not be fair to one's heirs.
Of course, too, if the guy is likely to be survived by his wife, as you seem to suggest he has reason to believe will be so, and if has no reason to be concerned about what will probably occur in his business' operation or about estate and income tax obligations or simply if perhaps also arbitrarily does not want address these issues, he might make a will leaving his entire estate to her and let her deal with the possibilities of ill will and confusion after the guy's and later her deaths.
Or he might want at least to address an issue you imply he also is avoiding of whether he and you use the word "fair" as if it is a synonym for financially "equal" even if he does not make a will next week. He also he might want to remind himself that he might make a will next and, if he later changes his mind, also change his will by later making a superseding one.
But also more often than not, delaying a decision results in substantially more unfairness than making a "wrong" decision.
Confusion aggravated by ill will does occasionally follow an adult parent's death. This can be so whether or not the parent dies leaving a will, especially if he or she has not communicated openly and frankly with the beneficiaries before the will becomes effective by reason of his or her death. However, mutual fairness and mutually considerate behavior, as the survivors decide what is and is not fair, also can result despite what a deceased parent's will provides and with survivors making financial and related adjustments as between or among themselves even if not explicitly provided for in the will. But there also is no way even intelligently to guess only from what you way which of these alternatives will be most likely for this eventually to die person.
All of this discourse seems to be based on the assumption that all children are somehow entitled to be treated fairly according to their views. Should not necessarily be so. Fair must be in the mind of the giver, and must be accepted and dealt with by the receivers........................or non receivers. The father's assessment of who deserves what, is all that matters. Screw hard feelings later. Adult offspring should be prepared to get nothing and settle for whatever they received during the parent's life.
========================================================================= even more 'useless' assumptions. that i'm going to offer advice... they can read for themselves (but difficult for them to post).
Also one doesnt have to know particular people to have a helpful idea about something in 'principle', or in 'general'.
i bet you have even more 'assumptions' ready to go.......yawn ===========================================================================
============================================================================ Thank you, but all the relevant information has been posted in the question and it's not just a 'legal' issue is it? The 'bare bones' were given to try to clarify the *essence* of the situation, so to speak.
When people can't grasp this, or have no idea where the question is coming from; they seem to want to make up a huge amount of totally unnecessary spurious stuff. Witness the detailed post of Rick Carstone 31 October, and a few other similar type of posts.
I believe the expression is: 'Biting your own tail'.
There's no tax on gifts in the UK except perhaps if you die within 7 years of making them in which case they might be subject to inheritence tax.
But in any case, there's no limit if it's a "regular gift out of income". As long as he has spare income he can gift it to anyone as long as he does it as a regular pattern. It does not become part of his estate and will not be subject to IHT even if he dies within 7 years.
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