What Is The Point Of Investing In The Future If There Is No Future To Invest In?

Sep 07, 2006 11 Replies

I am fortunate enough to have a pension that will give me something to live on in old age, if I live that long. Like hundreds of millions of people, I also have a bank account which keeps my money safe and pays a little interest, and some insurance which will pay out if something unfortunate happens to me. If I have enough money then, like many people, I might even decide to invest it in some other savings fund to get a bit of extra interest.



Most of this money is invested in stock (equity) markets and bond markets. According to the Office of National Statistics, pensions, insurance and savings accounts for 64% of all UK stock market investment by UK investors. This pattern being repeated around the world effectively cancels out foreign investment, meaning that a very few, commonly used services dominate global finance. If it were not for pensions, savings and insurance then the vast majority of companies would have to be either privately, or co-operatively owned.



As the world economy has moved on from being just a safe place to put money, the primary factor has been the need to grow. Between 1990 and 2006, the Dow Jones Industrial Average, a measure of the average value of key US stocks, grew from 2,800 to 11,300, an increase of over 400%. If this is a reflection of the appetite of the market for growth, then that is a truly ravenous appetite! If the value of investments does not grow according to customer demand then they will cease to be viable; insurance and pension companies will have no basis on which to pay out money, and banks and fund managers will stop paying interest on savings. In the end people will stop investing in any form of market. If growth does not happen then the market economy simply ceases to exist.



The problem is that growth has to come from somewhere, and it can either come from some artificially created value, such as property prices, which could collapse at any time, or some resource, such as oil, coal, cropland, rock or metal, that is continually being used at an increasing rate. In short, if companies do not accelerate their use of resources then the global economy will not be able to carry on as it is. The economy is hell-bent on consuming the Earth's finite resources in order to survive.



But do we have to have an economy that works like that?



There are two ways to look at this : either we try and make the existing system sustainable enough so that the future of the planet is assured, or we change to a system that can assure the future of the planet.


Making The Market Economy Sustainable


In order for the market economy to be made sustainable then natural resources cannot be consumed at a rate greater than the Earth can renew them. In theory, this means only using renewable resources, but in practice it means carefully balancing our needs with what the planet can spare; all with a growing population, each of whom has increasing demands on the Earth's resources.



The market economy as it stands cannot be fundamentally changed in this example. We are told that the system we have is the system that works best. This system has stood the test of time in supporting the various structures that the population depends on, and it is getting more and popular as the burgeoning Indian and Chinese markets can attest to. Market economies create wealth, they ensure free trade can happen, they allow anyone to succeed; so we are told. For the moment, let us just suspend all judgement on what market economies have failed to do for the planet.



Given that we generally have freedom to invest in whatever way we like, then we can, in some small way, change what stocks our money is invested in. For instance, if a large pension fund has a number of members with strong ethical beliefs then certain companies known to be unsustainable may be discarded from the scheme. Many people choose ethical private investments over growth only funds; in fact this accounts for around 10% of all funds in the USA. You may choose, as an individual, to move your savings into a more ethical bank, and your insurance scheme to an insurer who will not invest in highly damaging companies.



The bond market is generally less volatile than the stock market. Bonds are money loans to governments and blue-chip companies, usually for a smaller annual return over a longer period of time. The global bond market is effectively as large as the amount of money that all the governments and large companies in the world wish to borrow. In 2002, according to the IMF, the size of the global bond market was 42.8 trillion US Dollars, even greater than the size of the global equity market at the time. Many pension fund managers and insurers like to use bonds to provide some stability in their investments, and again, it is possible to use your money wisely and refuse to invest in governments and companies (i.e. refuse to prop them up) that have unsustainable practices.



Some companies and governments with poor ethical reputations can be made to suffer, and there can be a feedback effect whereby a withdrawal of investment will weaken the value of this investment overall, thus causing other funds to pull out of "bad" investments. The opposite can be true for positive investment in ethical companies.



All of this looks like good stuff. We can, as individuals, really change the system. But, of course, this is nonsense.



Individuals have very little influence over companies and governments and, in reality, very few people actually care where their money goes. Because the market economy is based on growth, anyone who does not want the value of their money to fall in relation to the world market, and thus not be able to afford what they need, has to invest in a growing market themselves. If the less damaging company or government is not growing much, essentially because they are consuming less resources, then who would want to invest in them? Not the general public, and certainly not the average growth-conscious fund manager.



A recent article in the Financial Times described this problem perfectly. It showed that the growth in markets that are normally considered "unethical" is generally far greater than the growth in conventional markets, and streets ahead of so-called "ethical" funds (which in many cases still allow oil, chemical and mining companies). The concept of sustainable investment is doomed because growth is mandatory in the market, and few people are willing to invest in something that does not grow.



So, if we really want to stop the planet from being eaten up by ravenous growth then the only alternative is to design a system that does not demand ravenous growth in the first place. What about a world where growth ceases to matter, because we are not competing with each other; where we support those who can no longer work; where we have little need for insurance; where we are happy to just put our money away safely because the cost of living will not go up? This can only happen in a world where we are not focussed on growth at all costs at the expense of a comfortable and fair life for everyone.


Changing The System


In order to design an alternative economic system to the market-economy we have now, then all the strictures governing the current economy must be ignored. Why? Because, although in a sense the market-led economy "works", i.e. it supports society, it is also bound to destroy the natural world. As I have said, it is the very nature of the growth-led system that consumes finite natural resources, so any part of that system could potentially be destructive.



I am at an advantage in that I do not have any formal economic training; nor do take much notice of the witterings of career politicians who are dependent on short-term policies for their survival. This means that I have not been conditioned to accept the current economic model as "a good thing". I do, however, understand that humans behave in certain ways and Utopia is really not possible whilst we have a natural desire to covet, compete and copulate at every opportunity. Any new system will have to accept human nature, and also accept that change cannot happen overnight without destroying the harmony that is needed for the new system to exist.



I believe that such a system can be designed. I freely admit that the structure of this growth-free system is not going to just fall into place; it has to be carefully designed and modified over time both to allow people to live healthy and productive lives, and also to ensure that they can live these lives as far into the future as we wish to exist as humans, rather than being destroyed by a world that can no longer support us.



What has to happen is for national economies to contract and converge.



Every single person on the Earth has a right to a basic standard of living; something that hundreds of millions of people in this wonderful market economy still do not have. There also need to exist the social systems required to support large populations; education, healthcare, useful employment, for instance; and, of course, the basic means for survival. It is in the economies that have yet to provide a basic standard of living and these support structures that the new zero-growth economy needs to be set up in first; for it is here that there is least to lose and most to gain, at least in terms of achieving a truly sustainable economy.



It is difficult to imagine how such an economy could survive in isolation or in small groups of countries; but such economies do exist already, in the form of island states, albeit with the inequality that seems to exist wherever humans live together, and which needs to be controlled. It could be said that most developing countries do not have the natural resources with which to support their populations under such a system. In reality, such pronouncements are baffling, as they assume that the countries are aiming to achieve the wasteful "western" standard of living; they assume that such countries cannot form stable governments to manage their social systems; they assume that there is no such thing as renewable energy, highly efficient farming methods, proper systems of material reuse and recycling.



This is not Utopia we are talking about; these are things that have already largely been achieved in the "developed" world, but which people have chosen to ignore in favour of a wasteful way of life.



Over time, all countries will have to converge towards a similar standard of living. This will not happen whilst rich countries have an unequal share of the Earth's resources, and this is where the second, critical part of the change must take place. The disposable mindset must be dismantled - the rich countries must contract. As each country contracts it can then converge with those countries already in the new system.



Contraction means returning to an era of durability, efficiency and only using what we need. There are countless articles and books suggesting how this can be achieved in every aspect of life, and the list is growing longer as more people see what is happening to the world. Of course, there will be huge resistance to this by people and governments who have enjoyed the artificial trapping that wealth can offer; there will have to be a very, very good reason to change. Want a good reason? We are destroying ourselves. Is that a good enough reason?



A world without waste does not have to mean a world with no pleasure and a life of toil, it just means that we have to seek our pleasures not in a way defined by corporations, as we are only to willing to do, but in a way that gives us true contentment. Vanuatu, with few material goods and a simple lifestyle compared to most Westerners, has the most content people on Earth. What do people living in the highly-developed market economy have?



Growth, and discontent - that is all.


Keith Farnish

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Actually I think you have got it all wrong (well 98% wrong) but I am not sure if you are around to discuss it or just a troll.

Hi Miss Toe

I'm a real person and that was my article. The original is on

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there is even a picture of me on the profile.

Please tell me why I am so wrong. Is it the complete departure from the existing system that makes it difficult to accept, or is it something more technical?

If you want you can e-mail me using the address on The Earth Blog.

Regards

Keith

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hopefully - few banks are guaranteed (absolutely)

Define little

Most insurance is a waste of money.

The fact that you make no mention of capital growth shows you know little of what you are talking about.

Which pattern ? and how is it repeated in India and China two of the major growing markets ?

I dont see that being a problem - for the lucky private owners. That was the situation a few decades ago. and this 'great share owning mdemocracy' that we are rapidly moving towards is merely a form of cooperative ownership (of the greater economy).

When was it ever safe ?

The need of what to grow ? Each individual company ? My savings ?

Does that include reinvested dividends ? How much of that growth is due to Mergers ?

I dont see how it is a reflection of appetite

Stock prices go down as well as up, and sometimes companies go bust what is the point you are trying to make ?

I think you forgot about gilts and premiums.

that is more linked to borrowers than markets

People do tend to slow down on investing after a crash or downturn. (which is usually the time they should start to invest)

That is more to do with the growing population than growing economies. Recycling will become more profitable as resource prices rise.

We could try communism, or fascism ?

Lets sort out part 1 of your sayings before we move on to part 2.

From what I read he seemed to have some valid, if not entirely original, points.

Lets step back a few hundred years. Around the time of industrialization Malthus predicted that the earth's population would outstrip the ability of the planet to sustain it (principally food at that time). The industrial and agricultural revolutions sidestepped Malthus prediction by applying technology and natural resources (such as superphosphate fertilizers from South-America made possible by steam shipping) to increase production. So we entered a long period of grow punctuated by frequent recessions (the business cycle).

Now Malthus would be quite happy to predict that this economic revolution merely put off the eventually reckoning. Economists on the other hand said that much, if not all, of the growth could come from greater efficiency in processes. For example a car built in 2006 uses a third of the steel of a car built in 1950 - better product with less raw materials. The Economist magazine regularly touts how Western economies have become "lightweight" with much less reliance on oil and other raw materials. Add into the mix that we can now recycle much of a car by intelligent labelling of parts and tax incentives.

What this ignores is that much recent growth has come from globalization. Not from more efficient manufacture, in many cases this has gone backwards, but from cheaper labour. I would argue that over the last ten years we have gone backwards in manufacturing as much of this has been outsourced to 2nd world countries with less efficient plant and less control over pollution with poorer quality control so that good break more frequently and have to be junked. But who cares when you can get a DVD player (about 20 quid) for almost the same price as the Hollywood Blockbuster DVD.

Economists will say this is just a temporary blip as these countries catch up with Western economies but does it make good sense for a car to travel 12,000 km from its place of manufacture or for milk to travel

3,500 km from cow to pot of yoghurt for sale in a supermarket? At present it does in economic terms because the costs of labour and transport are relatively low but this is unsustainable. Can China and India match Western living standards? It is hard to see how without complete depletion of resources and massive environmental degredation.

There is a movement that proposes "managed recession" as the future for the West. We adopt less material hungry lifestyles, put money into quality improvments such as energy neutral housing rather than consumer junk and have less pressured working lives.

OK 98% was probably a little high :-)

The OP makes no mention of population growth. Which I believe is at the root of all evil (well most of the worries about the future), if world population was (somehow) reduced by 90% global warming would cease to be worthy of discussion.

I'm not sure that I agree - I think 'Hong Kong' goods have significantly increased in quality, especially if you look back a bit more than 10 years.

I think to be a little more accurate it is not really the cost of labour it is the exchange rate difference.

I see the future as NOT big pay rises for Indians and Chinese, but significant exchange rate changes.

You are assuming that 'western' standards are static or rising. What about the scenario where 'western standards' come down a little as 'eastern standards' rise.

and increased use of computers give us a 3 day working week and 20 weeks holiday a year ??

I suspect we will just find more expensive things to do and buy.

Hi Miss Toe

I think I know where you are coming from now, and 98% seems to be a measure of your ideological objection to my ideas, rather than a quantitative figure, which is not borne out by your response.

It's good to have a healthy debate, so I will attempt to answer your issues, as this will help me to understand better the impact of my own ideas.

A couple of %.

It is if the premiums are too high, but then it is just another business built around the market economy, whereas it could be something far more attuned to reality - fairness and modest payments rather than promising huge payouts for specific conditions.

Sorry? That is the whole premise of my argument. I purposefully avoided the "C" word because Capitalism is a more than just an economic system. Capital growth has to come from somewhere - and that is what I base my objections on.

The growth in bulk, popular investments in both the local and foreign money markets. Yes this is most definitely being repeated in India and China (where, admittedly, there is far more centralisation, but foreign investment is growing massively in both directions)

Do you mean that a few decades ago we didn't have insurance, pensions and other investments (such as endowment mortgages)? Certainly there was far more private ownership years ago, but that was in a far smaller market. Private investors are now being swamped by corporate (i.e. the ones I mention) investments, and the resulting growth is very evident. We don't want to go back to a situation where a few large private investors controlled large parts of the economy (although again, companies were also often owned by employees - something that is very rare nowadays); this can only be beneficial to the economy if everyone is a philanthropist; but in both types of model, growth is still the overriding factor - no growth = no investment.

Compared to putting your savings under a mattress, yes.

The entire capital base and everything that is dependent on it.

I purposefully went far enough either side to avoid the absurd growth between 1998 and 2001. In 2000 the Dow Jones hit 11,600 and then plunged to below 8,000 in 2002 - which you will no doubt be aware of. Mergers result in another example of unjustifiable value; company values rarely maintain pre-merger growth following a merger. Reinvested dividends are surely just the same as buying more shares with profit - is this real value, though?

It is if that is what the market demands. I find it absurd that a system can exist that now only sees a growth in growth (a second differential!) as good news. Simple growth and (heaven help us!) stability, are not acceptable. This is a ravenous appetite!

Yes, but the industrial average continues to go up despite this. This is the value of the market.

No, I discuss bonds later on. Gilts and premiums are special types of bonds - which I am sure you already know.

Borrowers are just investors - your statement does not refute my argument.

And so the macro-cycle starts again, just higher up in the longer cycle.

I address population in detail in another of my articles

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- you might find it interesting.

Recycling :

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I have thought about this, and recycling has to be a virtually enclosed system with only truly sustainable inputs, including energy.

They are political systems. There is a dangerous assumption that anything that suggests co-operative living is creeping towards communism; that is just fear of a politcal outcome, which does not need to happen.

The 98% was more a reaction to your 'facts' I didnt really get as far as your ideas for example one I spotted later one:

"Over time, all countries will have to converge towards a similar standard of living. This will not happen whilst rich countries have an unequal share of the Earth's resources"

If you havent noticed it is actually (currently) the poor countries that have most of the Earths resources

But just for interest I have commented on some of your comments.

Where are you / I get 5% minimum on deposit.

The payments are generally in proportion to the premiums.

Yes, capital growth comes from something getting bigger, normally at the expense of something else getting smaller, usually the newer better things get bigger and the older less efficient things dissappear.

Do you think the world would be a better place now if Motor cars had never been invented and we all had horses ?

I have been told that there were predictions of London being buried in 20 foot of horse manure by the year 1960 if something wasnt done about the pollution !

I forgot to ask what the other 36% was ?

You say that as if foreign investment is a bad thing ? Surely me spending money in a poor foreign country and providing jobs over there is a good thing (I am not claiming that is my sole motivation).

What I meant was that in the 1940's & 50's most ordinary people didnt have shares, endownment mortgages and few had pensions and those that did were not structured in the way they are now.

I would say no change = no need for investment. One can still invest in companies that have little room for growth, they tend to be stable, and pay reasonable dividends - just look at some of the privatised utilities.

Are you saying it is less safe than it was before ? With government schemes protecting bank deposits, and compensation for misselling of endownments etc.

Personally I think that things like GDP should be measured more on a per capita basis, and yes we would all like to be richer and have easier lives - Is that a problem ?

Who do you see as not being happy with simple growth and stability ?

I was talking about the Insurance premiums, that you pay to the insurance company, most claim payments, most years are funded purely by premiums.

Savers are investors, not borrowers (unless they are borrowing to invest)

The long cycle of growing prosperity - do you have a problem with that.

I shall bookmark it for a more boring day.

The world is an enclosed system but with truely sustainable input of energy from the sun.

Most thinkers do not see the ideals of cooperative living as bad, just as unworkable, unfair, and counter productive.

They do however often work very well in small groups - Such as most family groups.

This is getting a bit long, but I won't trim it, so the sense of the argument is sustained.

Removed with a great deal of "help", at a cost both funancial and environmental, by the companies in rich countries. Guess which oil company is currently profiting from Mali's oil resources? Read "Collapse" by Jared Diamond for an excellent summary of this problem.

Not relevant to my argument - if my aim was growth then I wouldn't have my money in an ethical bank.

Oh, I don;t know about that. Compare the Model "T" Ford to the average Ford model now. Guess which is more efficient?

And don't forget the sheer quantity of product. How many cars per capita in

1920, 1940, 1960, 1980, 2000... See a pattern?

Well, we might have less allergies. But seriously, yes I really do. The ability to travel large distances has made community and family just political footballs now. They don't mean anything in practical terms any more. Distance has made us distant. We cannot relate any more - we just want to get everywhere as quickly as possible.

Farmers would disagree - what wonderful, natural fertiliser. It wouldn't have stayed in London for long.

Private investment and a couple of other minor factors. The link is on the original article.

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Not necessarily. Just that foreign investments tend to cancel themselves out between similar countries, so the net good is neutralised. Investing in a poorer country has to be done WITH EXTREME CAUTION - unless you can track exactly how your money is used, you cannot be sure what harm it is doing either; would you have invested in Union Carbide in India, Shell in Nigeria, RTZ in Malagasy, Tate and Lyle in Mauritius? All of them environmental and human disasters. Why economists think foreign investment is an unqualified "good thing" is too bizarre to express.

You're almost talking about a co-operative system here. Dividends paid as a financial incentive for keeping the company going (rather than going stratospheric)

No. But that was the primary motivation.

Richer in what? Money, happiness, health? Give me the last two and I can forget the first - and read to the end of the article before you comment, please.

Watch any financial news when company results come out. Results that show simple growth can turn into "holds". Results that show no growth usually turn into "sells".

Until a big claim is made. This is why Lloyds has Names, and all insurance companies use reinsurers and brokers.

Think about it. How much do you pay back compared to your borrowing?

Oh dear. That is the whole point of my ariticle - "prosperity" (by which is meant, "more money"), is at the expense of resources. Ironically, this argument is becoming cyclical.

Gee, thanks. Good to hear you are keen to find out more.

At least we agree on some thing. These models have to be made to work, otherwise we may as well just turn out the lights on everything.

Can you please read the rest of the article before responding again. You have only read my opening remarks, and they are relatively trivial compared to the main sections.

Thanks

Keith

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You are in danger of agreeing with the original poster there... :-)

I still havent read the whole post.

I wouldn't worry about trimming - I dont think anyone is listening to us.

I dont understand that bit can you explain it please.

What happend with T&L in Mauritius ?

I'm not sure all economists think the same. And most economists tend to qualify what they say until the cows come home.

A bit like putting your money in the Bank...

Those three are rarely linked, although money can often improve health. Whilst money can't bring happiness it can let you be miserable in comfort. And a lack of money can bring serious misery.

P.S. - I have now read the whole article.

I missed the bit in your article where you said how you would cure human beings of greed.

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