Fixing up a reconciled but never cashed online payment

This with Q2006 on XP/Pro: and some background. A while back [like 2 yrs ago or something -- likely just when I was first installing q2006 or the likely], I VERY mistakenly and unintentionally turned "online reconcile" instead of the "paper" reconcile I've been using for forever now. When they say it is hard to "go back" once you do online, they *MEAN*IT*. It totally screwed up my register and I pretty much have never been able to get things sorted out again [I didn't figure out what the problem was [hadn't even *occurred* to me that it was online-reconcile!] until I'd run off the end of my many backups. sigh]. Anyhow, after a lot of screwing around trying to get things working from "paper" again, I eventually kind of gave up, let Quicken put in a fake "balance adjustment" entry and kind of got back to balancing my acct [against the paper docs again]. The 'adjustment' came because I *KNOW* that several very old transactions had been carried forward in my register as having never been cashed and I really tried to remember what they are [basically solving the knapsack problem..:o)] to get the damn thing to balance, and just gave up.

Anyhow, I was pretty sure things were OK except about a month ago I got a letter from someone I had made an online payment to last October: they had misplaced the check that Wachovia had mailed them, and were afraid to try cashing it now so they were returning it and asking me to send them a replacement. That'd be fine, *except* when I looked at my register that check was marked 'R'. WTF?? I went through my [paper] statements and I, in fact, cannot find an entry that would correspond to that check actually being cashed. And now I don't know what to do.

This also touches on the fact that I don't know exactly what happens when Wachovia sends off a check for an online payment. I know that if I do that with a handwritten check, *nothing* happens: if the payee mails me the check back I can just destroy it and void the transaction, no harm no foul. But I think I'm going to be in a bit of trouble if I try to do that with this here Wachovia-issued check: I assume that I *cannot* just destroy the check and void the transaction.... But what should I do with the check?

AND: what should I do about my register. Will things still balance if I [somehow] cancel out that transaction, or will that now put me $900 out of kilter with the online balance or something?

I was *so* close to believing that I had managed to get past the online-reconcile debacle and now this... Thanks!!

/Bernie\

Reply to
Bernie Cosell
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I have no underlying problem comparable to yours; I have never, and will never, reconcile to an online balance.

But I did have an online billpay check sent to a payee by accident (I'm pretty sure I triggered it, I just can't find the evidence). The payee called me and told me that I had paid them twice ... what would I like them to do. I asked them to return the check to me. I then emailed BofA (my online billpayor) and asked them what to do. They said, "no problem; we'll reverse the charge in your account." Only point: the billpayor should be happy to work with you.

In your case, if the check is still good, and if you still owe them the money; your billpayor should be happy to let the payee cash the check. If the check isn't still good, just issue another.

You have already reconciled a check that did not clear; nothing can be right about that. Even if the payee can still cash the check, that check can not possibly clear the bank in the statement period for which you already reconciled it.

Personally, I would unreconcile every transaction in my account (using Find/Replace), and I would note my most recent paper statement (real-world) balance/date. If that old check was no longer valid, I would delete that old never-cashed check transaction (if it is still valid, you can leave it, it won't appear in any "previous" statement, so it should not be pertinent to a re-reconcile). I would change my reconcile to a "paper statement", and re-reconcile all previous transactions through the most recent known paper statement balance date. Depending on how many statements there were for the account, and how anal I was, I would either enter one manual adjustment with whatever date suited ... or I would discover when any statement imbalance occurred and enter my adjustment there.

Just one person's opinion; I think other users may offer better.

Reply to
John Pollard

} Bernie Cosell wrote: } > This with Q2006 on XP/Pro: and some background. A while } > back [like 2 yrs ago or something -- likely just when I } > was first installing q2006 or the likely], I VERY } > mistakenly and unintentionally turned "online reconcile" } > instead of the "paper" reconcile ...

} I have no underlying problem comparable to yours; I have never, } and will never, reconcile to an online balance.

Me, too: I did it entirely by accident... sigh..

} ... I asked them to return } the check to me. I then emailed BofA (my online billpayor) and } asked them what to do. They said, "no problem; we'll reverse } the charge in your account."

OK, that mostly confirms what I thought: two points here. First, unlike with a normal check, *do*not* just void the transaction and destroy the check, and second, the money really is debited from your account when they issue the check, *NOT* when they cash it. [which leads to the question: where _is_ that money. It apparently is not still in my account [earning interest, propping up my average-daily-balance, whatever] and the payee doesn't have it... Sounds like the traveler's-check-deal: the banks get to use my money during the 'float'...

I'll contact wachovia... thanks!

} > AND: what should I do about my register. Will things } > still balance if I [somehow] cancel out that transaction, } > or will that now put me $900 out of kilter with the } > online balance or something? } } You have already reconciled a check that did not clear; nothing } can be right about that.

I know.. UGH!

} Personally, I would unreconcile every transaction in my account } (using Find/Replace), and I would note my most recent paper } statement (real-world) balance/date. If that old check was no } longer valid, I would delete that old never-cashed check } transaction (if it is still valid, you can leave it, it won't } appear in any "previous" statement, so it should not be } pertinent to a re-reconcile). I would change my reconcile to a } "paper statement", and re-reconcile all previous transactions } through the most recent known paper statement balance date. } Depending on how many statements there were for the account, and } how anal I was, I would either enter one manual adjustment with } whatever date suited ... or I would discover when any statement } imbalance occurred and enter my adjustment there.

OK, I think can do the same thing, but less drastically, [because I'll have something like 2.5 yrs of transactions popping up if I un-reconcile] by doing three things: 1) call wachovia to cancel the transaction, 2) "void" [or delete or whatever] the bogusly reconciled transaction, and 3) reconcile the account against the most recent paper statement [which arrived just a few days ago], and enter a balance-correction transaction against the paper statement's balance.

Thanks!! /bernie\

Reply to
Bernie Cosell

}... about a month ago I got a } letter from someone I had made an online payment to last October: they had } misplaced the check that Wachovia had mailed them, and were afraid to try } cashing it now so they were returning it and asking me to send them a } replacement. That'd be fine, *except* when I looked at my register that } check was marked 'R'. WTF?? I went through my [paper] statements and I, } in fact, cannot find an entry that would correspond to that check actually } being cashed. And now I don't know what to do.

Followup: I've gotten off the phone with Wachovia and everything has been sorted out. What I didn't know is that when Wachovia prints "this check is only valid for 90 days", they *MEAN*IT*. What happened [now that was told to look in the right place in my register] is that my account was

*credited* for the amount of that check [about 94 days after it was issued!], and so the 'R' is correct: both the check and the credit were reconciled, the net on my acct was $0, and that's just right.

SO: all I need to do is reissue the payment and things will be just as they should be.

I now understand (more clearly) that the funds for online payments are immediately debited [and so the bank gets the 'float', same as with travelers's checks!] and I also understand that Wachovia, at least, is dead serious about the 90-days drop-dead-timer.

BUT: it does bring up a question I don't exactly understand: what's the difference between 'c' and 'R' for online payments? It is possible that that check went from 'c' to 'R' when the credit happened [I don't exactly remember and can't find it in my paper statements].

And more generally: it is at all possible to find out from Quicken exactly when an online payment was "cashed" -- from what I can see, the only dates I can find in my check register on the processing dates for the online payment (by clicking 'status'), but I can't find the *actual*date* that the payment happened [or indeed, whether it happened at all]. Is that info kicking around someplace?

Thanks! /Bernie\

Reply to
Bernie Cosell

Ummm - no. Not unless your vendor has a 'special' arrangement with Wachovia for EFT transfer.

Checks issued to vendors are debited when cashed. I can attest to that. My bank is Wachovia, and many times online transactions have been listed as 'not cleared' for longer than I think they should. You can check if an online payment was cashed either through Quicken, if you are paying for one-step-update access, or through the Wachovia bill management screen, if you initiated payment directly through Wachovia.

Sure it is!

If the payee doesn't have it, it was not debited. The reason it LOOKS like it was debited from your account, is that you reconciled to an online balance, marked all transactions as cleared, and let Quicken make a corresponding 'balance adjustment'.

This is what I would do as well.

Wouldn't be the same, as you have already ascertained, but would suffice I suppose if you are not overly concerned with where your online balance and paper statements differ.

Reply to
L

That's not necessarily true. Sometimes you get the float.

When you pay a bill using CheckFree, it travels one of three ways:

-Electronic Payment. CheckFree uses ACH or similar methods to ensure that the payment is received by the payee on or before the due date. Funds for the bill payment are generally withdrawn from your account on the Payment Date.

-Laser Check from Payer Payment. CheckFree sends Payee a check by US mail in the name of the account holder with the account holder's account number. As with a conventional check, funds are withdrawn when the payee cashes the check.

-"Guaranteed Funds" Check from CheckFree. CheckFree sends a check in it's OWN name to the payee. On the day that the recipient is to receive the payment, funds are withdrawn from the account.

CheckFree doesn't say how it chooses which method it uses. Only that it's dependent on your amount of useage and credit rating.

Reply to
Charlie K

As already noted by another, this is not always true; depends on the billpayer.

With BofA (All Other States), my account is debited "no earlier than the Delivery Date". The Process Date can be anywhere from, the same as the Delivery Date, to 6 days (or so) before the Delivery Date ... depending on the method of delivery, and the timing of weekends and holidays.

Reply to
John Pollard

} Bernie Cosell wrote: } } > I now understand (more clearly) that the funds for online } > payments are immediately debited

} With BofA (All Other States), my account is debited "no earlier } than the Delivery Date". The Process Date can be anywhere from, } the same as the Delivery Date, to 6 days (or so) before the } Delivery Date ... depending on the method of delivery, and the } timing of weekends and holidays.

I see that also in my register, this from Wachovia. But the one thing I can't find is the *actual*date* the check was cashed, if it was at all. The "status" seems only to include the processing info, not the actual when-it-was-presented date.. Maybe I should try sending myself a check [so I can know exactly when it went from nothing to 'c' to 'R', when I actually received the check, and when I cash it, what happens in my register].

/Bernie\

Reply to
Bernie Cosell

The way I'm interpreting this is: you won't ever see the date the check is actually cashed; when it is actually cashed, I think it's going to clear the *bank's* account, not yours. The check has already cleared your account (on the Delivery Date) and the money went from your account to the bank's account: from your perspective, the check was cashed on the Delivery Date.

That would be interesting; let us know what happens if you decide to do this. I would wait a few days after receiving the check (after the Delivery Date, actually) before you "cash" it.

Reply to
John Pollard

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