What a mess

Quicken makes automatic backups over a period of time. See Edit >

Preferences > Quicken Program and then look for Backups. You can set it to take up to 9 automatic backups. They are identified by Qdata1. Qdata2 etc. Each series of Backups such as Qdata1 is composed of about

6 different files. So you can get a large number rather quickly. You only really need one backup folder. You might have one from your old version. I've set mine for two backups as I always do periodic manual backups anyway and don't need automatic ones.

I just have one folder for backups I created in the folder I use for the regular data base I'm using. I've been told it works better that way.

If you have BACKUP folders in BACKUP folders, you probably have screwed something up. How bad it is is problematic.

Quicken does automatic backups every 7 days (or 7 executions of Quicken) or so. Those backups are put in a folder named BACKUP that is created in the folder where your Quicken data fileset resides. If you have a BACKUP folder within a BACKUP folder, you have probably either: opened the backup file that Quicken creates for you (which you should not do); or you have placed your Quicken data fileset in one of Quicken's BACKUP folders (which you also should not do).

I suggest you get in the habit of *never* "open"ing a Quicken backup file; either "restore" it, if that is called for; or copy it somewhere before you use it.

Hi, Mike.

The Quicken backup system works pretty well, but it can be confusing to us mere humans.

The first reason, of course, is that what Quicken calls "a file" is actually a set of several files - so, in here, we often call it "a fileset". There is always QDATA.QDF; there probably will be one or more additional QDATA.* files, all with the same root name (QDATA - or whatever you choose to name it) and with different extensions: .IDX, .QEL, .QPH, and .QTX, in my case; yours may be different. All these files are necessary and should usually be copied or backed up as a group.

All these files can be backed up in at least 3 ways:

1. Normal Windows backup methods - any time you choose to any location you choose, using any name you choose. (Just be sure you get all the QDATA.* files.)
2. Backup from within Q by clicking File | Backup (or Ctrl+B or by adding a Backup button to the Tool Bar). This produces a window with boxes to enter (1) which fileset you want to backup (the currently-open file is selected by default) and (2) where you want the backup to go (the last-used destination is entered by default). This window is quick and easy to use, once you get familiar with it (just click OK, usually), but the choices in both (1) and (2) can be confusing. Assuming that you are backing up your current file (C:\QuickenW\QDATA) to another location on your HD (E:\QBAK), just click OK and Q should soon report that the backup was successful. Then you should be able to find your original fileset in \QuickenW and an identical set in your backup location (E:\QBAK\QDATA).

Many Q users prefer to keep successive backups in different locations and/or with different names to be sure that the latest backup doesn't overwrite the previous one. You can do this by changing the destination in box (2) of the Quicken Backup window.

1. Automatic Backups. Every 7 days, starting with the day you install (or reinstall) Quicken, the program will automatically back up the entire fileset in a folder that Q creates; this folder is named C:\QuickenW\BACKUP. The first time, Q will rename the QDATA.* files to QDATA1.*. A week later, it will first rename the QDATA1 files QDATA2, then it will back up your current fileset as QDATA1. The next week, QDATA2 will become QDATA3, QDATA1 will become QDATA2, and the new backup will be QDATA1. After 5 weeks, you will have 5 backup sets, numbered 1 to 5. Every week thereafter, QDATA5 will be deleted and the others will move up a notch. From then on, you should always have 5 sets in C:\QuickenW\BACKUP - in addition to any other backups that you may have made.

Backup systems 2 and 3 are somewhat customizable. In Q05, click Edit | Preferences | Quicken Program. On this screen, click Backup, and you can input 2 numbers:

Remind after running Quicken ___ times. This changes how often you want to be reminded to make a manual backup, as in 2, above. I don't recall what the default was; I use 3. If I don't backup during this Q session, or the next one or the next, when I exit Q the 3rd time it asks if I want to backup. (When I first started using Quicken 15 years ago, computers and hard drives were not as reliable as they are now and I often lost my last half-hour's input if I didn't backup after every transaction, it seemed, so I learned to backup after every significant batch of input. So I seldom see this reminder.)

Maximum number of backup copies ___. The default is 5, but you can have 1 to 9 generations in \BACKUP if you choose.

Since the first and second backup methods are entirely within your control, you can have as many backups with your choice of names in as many different places as you like: on floppies, on CD/DVDs, anywhere on your HD(s), online... You can even put your manual backups in C:\QuickenW\BACKUP - or in C:\QuickenW\BACKUP\BACKUP, if you insist. ;^}

My own system uses 3 and 5 in the preferences window. My at-least-daily backups go to a folder on my second HD (in case the first one gets damaged). Every week or so (unless I get sloppy) I send this manual backup to a CD, which gets stored away from my computer. And then there are the 5 sets in BACKUP, plus my working copy. I think that is enough redundancy for me.

RC

OK...you guys don't know how much I appreciate your help. Thanks for all the input.

The "working file" I've been using is:

C:\Documents and Settings\Mike Kat\My Documents\Quicken\Q99Files\BACKUP\QDATA2. This isn't the way it's supposed to be is it?? If I understand right, the "working file" shouldn't be a BACKUP file....correct?

Can I rename this file, save it in my Quicken folder and just delete all the rest of the BACKUP folders??

If that's not possible I'm in trouble. Could I get an Intuit rep on the phone and have them help me clean this up step by step?? I've looked through the help index and viewed a couple of tutorials in Barnes & Noble, but I can't find any good information on managing these darn data files.

The input from you guys was great but I'm feeling a little overwhelmed here.

*sigh*

Mike

I don't think your problem is that serious - yet; not if you feel confidant that the file you have been using is correct. Your backup situation may be shakey, but you can overcome that. For Quicken filesets, a "backup" is literally just a copy of your fileset; you could produce the same result using Windows to "copy" all the files in your Quicken fileset to a different folder. The problem is really that if you keep using your backup files as your regular file, you either have no backup at all, or you will have a very difficult time finding it, if you do have one.

Analyzing your current situation a bit I see:

The Q99Files is a folder that Quicken created when you converted your Quicken data file (in the "Quicken" folder above it) to Q2005. What was supposed to be in the Q99Files folder was a backup (created by Quicken) of your last Q98 fileset. But, because - for some reason - you chose to create a Q2005 fileset in that folder, you then, indirectly, caused the creation of the Q98Files\BACKUP folder ... which Quicken also created, for Quicken's "automatic" backup. And now you are keeping your regular Quicken data fileset in the BACKUP folder, below which, I suspect, is now another BACKUP folder.

I would choose a folder where I wanted my Quicken data to reside and put the Quicken fileset you are currently using (assuming you have confidence of the data within that file being correct) in that folder. Just make sure that folder is not below any other Quicken data folder. And plan to always have your current Quicken fileset in that folder ... you can put backups of your own creation anywhere you like (except in that folder), and now you will know that the BACKUP folder beneath your Quicken data folder contains the auto backups created by Quicken.

I notice that the path to your existing Quicken fileset - even excluding the extra un-needed folders - is quite long, about 54 characters. In the past, there have been occasions when Quicken has had difficulty with long path names (and long file names); I think the recommended limit on length of the path is less than

64 characters, and the name itself should be less than 8 characters.

So, in a word, yes, you can "rename this file" to where ever you want to keep it. And I would not necessarily rush to get rid of all your "backup" files. Once you have begun to establish backups made from the fileset you are about to "rename", then you might consider getting rid of the older backups from prior to the rename.

Hi, Mike.

I'm not sure how your files got this way, but maybe that doesn't matter. Let's just fix it, then you can clean up the leftovers at your convenience. ;^}

You should have a folder named QuickenW, and this should contain all the working files for Q2005. The location of the folder would depend on the choices you made during installation, but the default is C:\Program Files\QuickenW. Within QuickenW should be nearly 200 files, totaling about

50 MB. There should also be about 2 dozen subfolders, including one named \BACKUP and one named \Q99Files. The QuickenW\BACKUP folder should contain your automatic backup files. The QuickenW\Q99Files folder should be dated the day you upgraded from Quicken 99, and should contain the last working set of your data files that you used with Q99. Also within QuickenW should be your actual current working fileset, QDATA.*, dated today or very recently.

It's OK to use the default name, QDATA, for your own files. It gets confusing, though, when you are trying to separate your real data from examples. I recommend that you select a name for YOUR fileset. Pick a name of no more than 7 characters and don't use a number for the last character. MIKE.QDF is a good name; MIKE2.QDF is not so good, because it'll get confusing when Quicken's backup adds a digit - making it MIKE21.QDF. (Voice of experience! It's workable, with care, but why invite the confusion?) When I see the name QDATA2 in your latest post, I'm not sure if that is the actual name of your working file, or if it is the second backup of your QDATA file. :>( For the following example, I'll use MIKE.QDF.

To start the fix, simply open Quicken 2005 normally. This should load your current working file, whatever its name. Make sure this is, in fact, the right file. Then click File | Backup. In Box 1, "Select the Quicken file to back up", you should see the full path of your current working file. By default, it would be C:\Program Files\QUICKENW\QDATA.QDF. If it is something else, THAT is where your current working file has been saved up to now. You can change this - but don't!

In Box 2, "Where do you want to save your backup file?", select the first radio button, "On my computer". In the box, "Select the disk drive and path to the backup folder", type in: C:\Program Files\QuickenW\MIKE.QDF, and then click OK.

This will move your working fileset, whatever its name, from wherever it used to be to where it should be, changing its name in the process. You will henceforth be using the fileset MIKE.*, located in the QuickenW folder.

Now, exit Quicken. Then use Windows Explorer to navigate to the C:\Program Files\QuickenW folder and click on the file MIKE.QDF. This should start Quicken 2005, using the MIKE data file. The next time you exit Quicken, it will remember this filename and path for the future - until you change it. (You can, if you like, right-click on the filename in Explorer and create a shortcut on your Desktop that will always start Quicken with this file loaded.)

Now, use File | Backup again to save your new MIKE fileset to wherever you want your non-automatic backups to be. Box 1 of the Backup window should already show your new MIKE.QDF file as the one to be backed up. In Box 2, Browse to - or type in - the location where you want the backup to be. DO NOT choose QuickenW\BACKUP; that's just inviting unnecessary confusion, in addition to providing no additional security if that folder gets lost or damaged.

Now, rename the QuickenW\BACKUP folder to OLDBACK (or some other name of your choice). After a week or so, you should see that Quicken has created a new QuickenW\BACKUP folder and that it contains a set of files named MIKE1.*. This is the first generation of the automatic backups of your newly-named data fileset. Each week, a new generation will be added, as I explained before, until you have a full set, from MIKE1 to MIKE5.

Now, at your convenience, you can find and evaluate all the QDATA*.* files on your computer and delete all those - in OLDBACK and elsewhere - that you no longer need.

If you get stuck or lost in all this, post back and we'll try again. ;^)

RC

I made it this far RC. Now when I clicked on the file MIKE.QDF from Explorer it didn't fire up Quicken. However, when I clicked on my old Quicken icon shortcut it did. The working file appears to now be:

C:\Program Files\QUICKENW\MIKE.QDF\QDATA2_20050325

It shouldn't have the QDATA2_20050325 in it should it??

I think I'd like to just keep it simple and copy it to the D drive on a CD. What should I put in Box 2??

Mike

Hi, Mike.

Congratulations! You're nearly there. Let's see if we can fix the remaining gremlins.

Apparently the .QDF file association isn't working for some reason. One way to fix this is to Right-click on MIKE.QDF and then, instead of Open, click Open with... In the Open With window, click Quicken Launcher, then check the box to Always use the selected program to open this kind of file, and click OK. If Quicken Launcher does not appear as an option, click Browse... and find QW.exe in the QuickenW folder. (After reading the next few paragraphs, I'm wondering if you are clicking on the MIKE.QDF FOLDER name in Explorer, rather than the FILE name. I never considered that you might unintentionally create a folder with that name.)

No. That is an optional setting in Quicken's Backup screen. Notice that in the top area, under the box that shows the file that will be backed up (the currently-open file, by default), there is a line that says "Add date to file name". If that box is checked, you get the result you see. I've not used this, so I didn't think to mention that you should clear that box.

Also, I goofed, I'm afraid. In the destination box, I forgot that we cannot enter the filename; only the folder name. So, when you typed ..\MIKE.QDF, Quicken interpreted that as a new FOLDER name, created a folder named MIKE.QDF, and put your QDATA2 file - with its new date added to the name - into that folder. You'll want to delete that folder (and its contents) as a part of the cleanup when this project is done.

I should have told you to use Quicken's Copy command, rather than Backup, to create your new MIKE.QDF file. After you start Quicken and get your current QDATA2.QDF file loaded, click File | File Operations | Copy. This will open the Copy File window. Your current filename will be already entered, but with the letters "Cpy" inserted (QDATA2Cpy.QDF). Before clicking OK, be sure the new file is going to your Quicken folder and change the filename to MIKE.QDF. I think you want it to say: C:\Program Files\QuickenW\MIKE.QDF. Copy options should default to copy transactions from the beginning until today and to include all prior transactions. So, after changing to the new filename, just click OK.

Instead of Copy, you could use File | File Operations | Rename. If you do that, be sure to type in your new filename before clicking on the old filename.

That should get your new file MIKE.QDF up and running. Then you can use Quicken Backup to put a copy of MIKE.QDF into whichever folder you choose. I'm sorry for the misdirection earlier.

In Box 2, put the name of your folder on the CD: D:\QBAK, or whatever you choose. (As we learned above, don't include the filename; it should default to MIKE.QDF.)

That SHOULD do it - but it might not. :>( WinXP and Quicken don't always work together as we would expect in backing up to a CD/DVD. After Quicken happily reports "File backed up successfully", use Windows Explorer to see what is REALLY on your CD. Often, your files have only gone into a holding area on your hard drive, ready to be "burned" to CD, but not actually burned yet. The results you see - and the procedure you will need to follow - depend on your CD/DVD hardware and software (Roxio? Nero?). This has been a hot topic in this Quicken NG for a couple of years now. If you don't get the right results, start another thread about just the CD backup issue - or search the archive for the many prior discussions of this topic.

Let us know how this works out for you.

RC

Hey R.C.,

Thanks for taking the time to help me through this. I wish I could repay you somehow.

I went ahead and renamed my old filename to MIKE.QDF. So now when I check the last file used under the File menu I see my working file as:

C:\Program Files\QUICKENW\MIKE.QDF\MIKE

And when I go to back up, Box 1 now shows by default:

C:\Program Files\QUICKENW\MIKE.QDF\MIKE.QDF

Is that looking better or is the second MIKE.QDF not supposed to be there?

I had a little trouble renaming the BACKUP folder too. Shouldn't I be able to just start deleting the automatic BACKUP copies that DON'T have MIKE.QDF in them once I see the new ones??

Thank you very, very much!!

Mike

I just noticed one other thing R.C.

When I go to do my backup to a CD-RW disk like I was doing before, I no longer get the whole fileset. It's only copying MIKE.QDF, MIKE.IDX AND MIKE.QEL. It seems MIKE.QPH is not showing up. Any idea's??

I'm heading out of town for the weekend pretty soon so if you happen to get back to these last (hopefully huh? :)) questions I won't be able to try anything until Sun night.

Have a good one!!

Mike

Hi, Mike.

No. The FIRST MIKE.QDF should not be there. :>(

If it comes before the \ it is a FOLDER name, not a file name. Your working copy should be in the QuickenW folder. You can put it wherever you want, but it's in QuickenW by default and it works fine there for me.

Your current directory tree apparently looks like this: C:\Program Files (folder) \QuickenW (folder) \MIKE.QDF (folder) \MIKE.QDF (file)

All this is perfectly legal in Windows, but it's confusing - and I doubt it's what you intended. There are several ways to fix it. Here's one way:

Exit Quicken. Open Windows Explorer and navigate to QuickenW. Find the MIKE.QDF FOLDER and Rename it to anything you like - how about OldMike. Then open another Explorer window and navigate to QuickenW again. Then click on OldMike in this window to see its contents - which should be all your working files in the MIKE fileset. Size the two windows so that you can see them both at the same time. Then highlight ALL the MIKE.* files in OldMike, right-click on one of them, and drag the group into the QuickenW folder in the other Explorer windows and drop them there. When the context window asks whether you want to Copy or Move, tell it to Move them. That should leave OldMike empty and you can Delete it. And it should leave all your MIKE.* files in QuickenW, with no intervening subfolder.

Now, click on the FILE QuickenW\MIKE.QDF. It should open Quicken with the MIKE.QDF fileset loaded. Backup this fileset. Box 1 in Backup should show you will be backing up QuickenW\MIKE.QDF - and MIKE should be there just once. In Box 2, put your destination FOLDER name, without any filename, which will be supplied automatically.

Quicken automatically creates the BACKUP subfolder within the QuickenW folder. Users sometimes get confused and create a new subfolder named BACKUP within the automatically-created BACKUP subfolder - kind of like you unintentionally created a folder named MIKE.QDF when you were trying to put a file by that name into an existing folder (because I told you wrongly how to use Box 2 of the Backup screen). If you manage to delete or rename QuickenW\BACKUP, a new one will be created again by Quicken within a week and it will contain only the latest backup (MIKE1.*) at first. After 5 weeks, all your backups should be named MIKE*. Then you can delete all the older ones.

Enjoy your weekend and let us know if you are still having problems with this next week. ; Hey R.C.,

< snip >

Possibly Mike does not (or at one time, did not) realize that in the Quicken Backup dialog, the box to "Select the disk drive and path to the backup directory" does not expect the name of the backup *file*, since the backup file will always have the same name as the file being backed up.

Hi, John.

Right. But Mike had a good excuse: He followed my instructions. I was the one who goofed. :>(

RC

R.C.,

Thanks to you & John I believe this project is just about wrapped up.

I now have:

C:\Program Files\Quicken\....(11 folders ranging from "Basic" to "Sounds")

C:\Program Files\QUICKENW\MIKE.QDF, MIKE.IDX, MIKE.QEL, MIKE.QPH

Quicken fires up properly and I've make a back-up copy of my MIKE fileset in another location on my HD.

But...

I still have another (the old) Quicken folder at:

C:\Documents and Settings\Mike & Kat\My Documents\Quicken\....(2 folders named BACKUP & Q99Files)

I understand I can delete the numerous BACKUP folders and subfolders here once MIKE automatic back-ups begin over at Program Files\QUICKENW.

Is there any reason to keep the Q99Files folder and if so, where should I put it?? How about the VALIDATE folder that's also found here?? I should also delete the folder named "Quicken" at this location so as not to have two of them right??

Thank you very, very much. This has been quite the education and I really appreciate it!!!

Mike

Congratulations, Mike!

As to your remaining question...

Some of WinXP's workings are still mysteries to me, and the Docs & Settings folder(s) is one of them. Seems to be a lot of overlapping, redundant files/folders to allow us to do the same things in several different ways. My own D&S\RC\My Documents folder does contain a Quicken subfolder, but it is empty.

My Q99Files disappeared years ago; my QuickenW folder includes Q04Files, holding the last fileset that I used with Quicken 2004 when I upgraded to Q2005 last fall. The location of such folders depend on your own computer organization at the time you upgrade to the new Quicken version. Whether (and when) to delete those files depends on your own philosophy about "how much backup is enough/too much", including such things as how much unused HD space and what kinds of archive resources you have. The old files will PROBABLY never be needed again, in which case they are just taking up disk space - and risk unauthorized access.

RC

Here's another good reason not to open the backup file directly - if you have scheduled transactions set to automatically enter on opening the file - well that's just what will happen - which means that this file is no longer a backup at some date, it's a backup at some date plus a few new transactions. Of course this might not be a problem...

In my personal opinion, it is not a good idea to mix data files with program files. the "Program Files" folder (and sub-folders) really should be reserved for only the actual program files created on installation.

The principal idea behind the "Documents and Settings" folder (and sub-folders - including "My Documents") is to provide a repository for user-specific settings and data. Note that if you have multiple users set up on your computer, each user gets his own set of sub-folders within "Documents and Settings".

By managing the data files in this way, it is relatively easy to back up all user data files for archival and recovery purposes without having to back up your entire installation.

Unfortunately, (again in my opinion) Microsoft messed up an otherwise good idea by mixing stuff into the "Documents and Settings" tree that really would be better put elsewhere. In particular, all of the temporary files associated with IE are put there. These often take up huge amounts of storage space and, while debatably useful for speeding up web browsing, really have no need to be backed up. As a result, generating useful backups/archives is needlessly complicated.

Anyway, back to the point. You should consider moving your Quicken data files into the "My Documents" tree.

Mike Budwey