EIN vs. SSN (different numbering space)

The dashes are REQUIRED as part of the value. That's how one tells them apart. Therefore, a properly formatted SSN or ITIN will never collide with an EIN. SSN and ITIN numberspaces are mutually exclusive. SSN and EIN numberspaces are NOT.

That is insufficient to prevent collisions when dashes are omitted.

That's not how the IRS tells them apart, see below.

The e-file record layouts do not use dashes, so if indeed the set of SSN and EIN is not mutually exclusive (still not conclusively determined here, AFAICT), then it is the *context* that determines which is which, not dashes.

A validation of such numbers is going to be made using the name of the entity, so it really does not make any difference to the IRS computer whether the sets are exclusive, or whether there are dashes -- that is strictly a human-readable issue.

For example, according to Pub 1346, Part 2, the taxpayer SSN is 9 chars, while the EIN on Schedule C is also 9 chars -- no dashes in the e-file submission. This is also the case for every other form or schedule that uses a TIN. See excerpt below.

[note the following will look better in fixed font]

FORM 1040 PAGE 1 Field Identification Form Length Field Description No. Ref.

----- -------------- ---- ------ -----------------

0003 Taxpayer 9 N (Primary SSN) Identification Number

SCHEDULE C PAGE 1 Profit or Loss from Business Field Identification Form Length Field Description No. Ref.

----- -------------- ---- ------ -----------------

0060 Employer ID D 9 N Number

-Mark Bole

Correct. Things may have changed since I left the IRS, but back in the day we referred to "edited" and "unedited" TINs. Edited TINs include the hyphens and any suffix and can run as many as 12 characters. They are used when a human is going to view it. Unedited TINs are 11 digits and are what's stored in the database. They consist of the 9 digits of the number and 2 numeric indicators which provide the information needed to distinguish it from another TIN of the same 9 digits, as well as the information needed to format the TIN for human viewing.

Phil Marti Clarksburg, MD

Bad example Art. See Pub 1346.

Field 40 is the (first) EIN or SSN, and as you noted contains only nine characters. (Normally digits, but several specific literals, such as NONEXEMPT, are also allowed.)

Field 45 is a type literal - "S" for SSN or ITIN, "E" for EIC, or blank (for allowed literals?).

Thank you for beating me to it, Don. ;-)

Field 45 distinguishes between the two. Without it, one CANNOT TELL (otherwise, it wouldn't be necessary).

The PRINTED TEXT FORMAT requires the dashes be present and in the correct place.

Here's yet another 9-digit number to throw in: The CAF number. It's single dash in between digits 4 and 5 is to distinguish it from all of the above. I ignore the trailing letter as SSNs can (and do) have trailing letters also, to distinguish an entity subtype or subaccount (IRA, estate [estate tax], etc.).

Whoops. Right. Bad Example. My bad.

(snippedd.

Well now, how about this, gang? Instructions for 2009 1099'misc don't address what kind of payor number it is but refer to instructions for the 1096, the transmittal document. I just looked at one and there are two boxes on it, one for EIN and one for SSN. You fill in the box that fits the payor's number to be used.

So a clerk opens the envelope and first inputs information from the

1096. This information about the payor (whether SSN or EIN is used) is then default information for each 1099 submitted.

Case solved.

ChEAr$, Harlan Lunsford, EA n LA

What are we solving? I didn't see any problem to begin with.

Don't forget the PTIN, which I believe always starts with a "P". Since the preparer's ID can be an SSN or a PTIN, I guess in this case the "P" would be mandatory to distinguish the two.

-Mark Bole

"HLunsford" wrote

Egg-zactly....the 1096/W3 act as a common source entry for all 1099 or W2 that follow along with that batch of information returns.

Back in the ancient days when I worked at a Service Center nka Campus..... spent many many hours running the 1096/1099 batches through the OCR scanners, the clerks following my stage would key verify the 1096 payer information, then all the associtated 1099 documents payée information that followed.

It is very rare to have ~data collisions~!

There are sequences of EIN that are also SSN's, very very rare and would only cause a problem if transcribed into the system under the wrong tin format indicator,this code is transparent to the person filling in the form, it's set by the visual clues (hypens) or placement in designated boxes.

The box one or two on the 1096 indicates which format for the payer TIN will be in.

On the 1099 there is only one box for the payee EIN/SSN, format & validation occur upon input.

On the very rare event that a match exist's, (payee side) the usual problems that arrise are 1099 Misc income being alleged to be Under Reported on the receipients Income Tax Return, those few that fall through the cracks are commonly eliminated from the analysis as ~Bad Payer Data~.

The PTIN is meant to stand in the place of an SSN, so it doesn't bring anything new to the issue.

If he were PROPERLY writing them in the first place (that means WITH the dash[es]), there would be no question as to which is which. They cannot be written as a simple string of 9 digits. The dashes are significant.

And self verifies, since it is P + 8 digits, not a 9 digit number.

And the Volunteer Site ID Number (SIDN) also self verifies as it is S + 8 digits. VITA, AARP TaxAide and other volunteer sites use that SIDN, and it applies to the Site where the return is prepared and not the preparer.