Federal Carryover Worksheet, how can you have a payment and a refund at same time?

TurboTax did something and I am wondering if it is possible. After importing 2010 return into 2011, on the Federal Carryover Worksheet 2011 on top is a table
of 2010 State and Local Income Tax Information containing columns (a) - (g) for the year 2010. In 2010 I had an $1076 overpayment and column (f) 'Total Overpayment' shows this amount. However column (e) 'Paid With Return' shows an $1,278 amount I don't know where it comes from. It seems that it should be line 29 "TAX DUE" on my NM 2010 PIT-1. It seems to me that either column (e) or (f) should be zero, how could one have a payment due with a return and an overpayment at the same time?
Any explanation and example on how this could happen would be appreciated. What other lines from my New Mexico return could possibly flow into this number in column (e) labeled 'Paid with Return'?
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

I suppose this could happen if you paid $1,278, then you filed an amended return or the state noticed an error, and this resulted in an overpayment of $1,076.
But I think you would remember something like this.
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On 9/3/12 10:51 AM, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

2010 return into 2011, on the Federal Carryover Worksheet 2011 on top is a table of 2010 State and Local Income Tax Information containing columns (a) - (g) for the year 2010. In 2010 I had an $1076 overpayment and column (f) 'Total Overpayment' shows this amount. However column (e) 'Paid With Return' shows an $1,278 amount I don't know where it comes from. It seems that it should be line 29 "TAX DUE" on my NM 2010 PIT-1. It seems to me that either column (e) or (f) should be zero, how could one have a payment due with a return and an overpayment at the same time?

What other lines from my New Mexico return could possibly flow into this number in column (e) labeled 'Paid with Return'?

Our site prepares thousands of NM state returns. We don't use TT. We use professional tax software. I have no idea what columns (a) thru (?) on the TT worksheet represent, nor do I know what is on your PIT-1 lines 21 thru 38. I can tell you that any carryover worksheet should have at least one column that adds up your state payments (W-2, estimated, paid with extension & refundable credits); another column that reflects your tax bill; and lastly the columns that represent the subtraction of the two... either the amount due or the amount to be refunded.
If you don't recognize the $1278, I'm not sure anyone can help you without a lot more detail.
What did 2011 TT do with the information on the FCW?
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Alan
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On Monday, September 3, 2012 12:25:02 PM UTC-6, snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote:

importing 2010 return into 2011, on the Federal Carryover Worksheet 2011 on top is a table of 2010 State and Local Income Tax Information containing columns (a) - (g) for the year 2010. In 2010 I had an $1076 overpayment and column (f) 'Total Overpayment' shows this amount. However column (e) 'Paid With Return' shows an $1,278 amount I don't know where it comes from. It seems that it should be line 29 "TAX DUE" on my NM 2010 PIT-1. It seems to me that either column (e) or (f) should be zero, how could one have a payment due with a return and an overpayment at the same time?

What other lines from my New Mexico return could possibly flow into this number in column (e) labeled 'Paid with Return'?

Alan, Thanks for trying to be helpful!
1) Sorry I jumped to a conclusion, since some of the worksheets in TurboTax are the same as the professional software my old preparer used, I just assumed most were the same.
2) The columns from the Federal Carryover Worksheet 2011, which seems is what you say is required are, with my numbers, filled in by TT after importing my 2010 return: 2010 State and local income tax information a) state ID NM b) Paid with extension 2,300 c) Estimates paid after 12/31 1,160 d) total withheld/pmts 6,313 e) paid with return 1,278 <-- number is question f) total over payment 1,076 e) applied amount 1,076
3) The values from my 2010 NM PIT-1, with most zero lines omitted 21 Net NM income tax 5,271 24 NM income tax withheld 1,613 26 2010 estimated income tax payments 2,400 27 Other payments 2,300 (note this is amount paid w/extension) 28 total payments 6,313 29 Tax Due 0 35 Overpayment 1,076 37 Amount applied to 2011 estimated 1,076 38 Amount to be refunded 0 4) What does TT do with the info on the FCW? It does affect the tax due for 2011, about ~$300. This number I know gets carried over to a Tax Payment Wks, which I think is a TT only worksheet, onto line 23, Balanced due paid with 2010 return, but it doesn't seem to do anything there, these are just entries. This wks is referenced by the State and Local Tax Deduction Wks, line 5, Amount Paid with state income tax return, this worksheet has the following lines: 1 state income tax withheld 1,682 2 2011 state estimated taxes paid in 2011 3,000 3 2010 state estimated taxes paid 2011 1,160 4 amount paid with 2010 state extension 2,300 5 amount paid with 2010 state income tax return 1,278 <--- 6 Overpayment on 2010 state return applied to 2011 taxes 1,076 7 Other amounts paid in 2011 (amended returns, etc) 8 State estimated tax from Schedule K-1 Local taxes lines 9 - 16, repeat of 1-8, and don't apply 17 other 18 Add lines 1 - 17 10,496 19 State and local refund allocated to 2011 590 20 Nondeductible state income tax from line 28 (this is for Hawaii only) 21 Total reductions add line 19 and 20 590 22 Total stat and local income tax deduction, line 18 less 21 9,906
Line 22 is input to Schedule A line 5.
this last worksheet spells it out pretty clear to me, where this number is used (line 5), that this amount is considered to be the amount paid with 2010 state income tax return, which my PIT shows as zero.
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On 9/4/12 10:00 AM, Paul Hillman wrote:

are the same as the professional software my old preparer used, I just assumed most were the same.

you say is required are, with my numbers, filled in by TT after importing my 2010 return:

2011, about ~$300. This number I know gets carried over to a Tax Payment Wks, which I think is a TT only worksheet, onto line 23, Balanced due paid with 2010 return, but it doesn't seem to do anything there, these are just entries. This wks is referenced by the State and Local Tax Deduction Wks, line 5, Amount Paid with state income tax return, this worksheet has the following lines:

used (line 5), that this amount is considered to be the amount paid with 2010 state income tax return, which my PIT shows as zero.

I know you are trying to be helpful but here's what is missing and it may lead you to some conclusion. Your federal 2010 Schedule A (assuming you used SIT and not Sales Tax) should have included: Your 2010 state withholding; Jan. 2010 estimated state tax payment for the 2009 tax year; the Apr., June and Sept. 2010 estimated tax payments for the 2010 tax year; any payment made in 2010 to the state for taxes owed for any prior year and any refund on the 2009 state tax return that you asked to be applied to your 2010 tax return. Your state 2010 final return, should have had as payments to be applied against your 2010 taxes, your 2010 withholding; all 4 of your 2010 estimated payments; any payment made in 2011 with an extension for 2010 and any amount applied to 2010 from a 2009 overpayment.
Your 2011 federal Schedule A should reflect everything stated above by just adding "1" to every year. E.g., your 2011 federal Schedule A should have included your 2011 state withholding, etc...
If your 2011 schedule A does not match the result of the above calculation, you need to override the result.
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Cross-posted in the TurboTax Live Community
https://ttlc.intuit.com/post/show_full/bMsAlC8YWr4Bo-eJfbaB3K
or http://tinyurl.com/9abud4c
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I believe RJS's post of September 3rd says it all. "If you are saying that you do have overrides in one of the returns, then no diagnosis is possible. You may consider it disturbing, but the side effects of an override are essentially impossible to predict. That's why an override prevents e-filing and cancels the TurboTax Accuracy Guarantee. An override is not meant to be the normal method of correcting an erroneous value. If you have an override, 'results are unpredictable.'"
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On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 7:02:15 AM UTC-6, Bill Brown wrote:

May I ask what is the normal method of correcting an erroneous value?
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Find out what is causing a wrong figure to pop up and correct it.
I shudder when I hear of overrides on a federal tax return.
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ArtKamlet at a o l dot c o m Columbus OH K2PZH

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On Tuesday, September 4, 2012 7:02:15 AM UTC-6, Bill Brown wrote:

Bill and Arthur, I have since checked the 2010 return, as instructed by RJS, and there are no overrides. As Arthur commented I now understand the 'terminology' and 100% agree as to correcting wrong inputs vs overriding TT calculations. I've always have corrected inputs, duh.
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On Monday, September 3, 2012 12:25:03 PM UTC-6, Bob Sandler wrote:

Bob, and others,
What does this forum request for proper etiquette. I know this isn't a TT forum and I tried to phrase my question as a tax question, not a TT question. Do the members of this forum request that I reference other forums where I posted a similar question? I just thought I'd get a more professional answer here into what other lines from my PIT-1 might flow into this number, and as mentioned else where I thought Federal Carryover Worksheet was a standard worksheet, not one unique to TT, for that I am sorry.
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wrote:

I think Bob was just trying to be helpful and not implying that you posted in the wrong forum.
While talk about TurboTax may be considered to be not strictly on topic, it is certainly related, and so it (as well as discussions of other tax software) has been allowed over the years.
___ Stu http://DownToEarthLawyer.com
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To anyone still following this thread: I am truly sorry for not being more careful in the numbers posted. I was trying to stay consistent but due to an amendment in 2010, things were a little more complicated and I was trying to simplify and be less confusing, and concentrate on the real issue, but then ended up being less accurate.
A VERY observant Steamboat at the TurboTax forum found that what was being used for the amount paid with return, column (e) in the 2010 State and local income tax information (1258, the other number was a typo that got propagated more than once) in my posting is the amount paid with extension (2300) minus the overpayment (1042), a value that was wrong in my posted numbers.
So again, my 2010 NM PIT does not show any amount paid with return. but when 2010's file is imported into 2011, it uses what was paid with the extension minus the overpayment for paid with return in the table that summarizes 2010 State and local income tax information. I have since verified this by purposefully increasing the overpayment by changing one of the quarterly payments or changing the amount paid with extension on the 2010 return then importing into 2011.
I think one problem is on the NM PIT where there is not a line for Paid with Extension, but just line 27, other payments. This is where TT puts it.
This, I think, now is a TT issue, so I won't continue. Though I would appreciate knowing if other states have a line for Paid with Extension. Any other comments would also be welcome.
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