Allsop Property Auction

In message , dp writes

You probably shouldn't travel to any auctions

As you appear to feel very strongly about "the norm", you could, of course, consider talking to Trading Standards about the misleading contents of the catalogue, (Property Misdescriptions Act).

In article , dp writes

Allsop auctions are London-based. If you want local northern service, go to a firm like Pugh or Athawes.

Guides are set by reserves. Reserves are set by sellers, not auctioneers. And they are not revealed to the floor.

How do you know they were phoney?

That's how things work. Auctioneers are instructed by potential buyers to make bids if they cannot attend the sale.

By the pictures? There's always the Property Misdescriptions Act.

And prosecuted, I presume. The guide is always set at the top of the reserve range. The reserve cannot be raised without increasing the guide, as this breaks the Property Misdescriptions Act.

Then you will be cutting off your nose, etc,etc. Allsop sold close to £1bn of property at auction last year - as much as all the next top half dozen auctioneers put together and about 20 times the biggest provincial house. So you would miss out on vast amounts of property. If you have a complaint, write to Allsops.

If they can't provide a service outside the capital, they shouldn't take on the properties.

It would be nice if that was always the case. To quote Allsop's catalogue "It is possible that the reserve price set for any lot may exceed the quoted guide price."

Because they were not made by real people. There were signs beyond not seeing the bidder. For example, three similar but not identical blocks of flats each took the bidding up to 895k before the auctioneer announced it was not enough to sell. The blocks were not similar enough to attract exactly the same real bids three times in a row (two included some garages, two were vacant, one was tennanted). It was obvious to me that the reserve on each block was around 900k. My view was confirmed when a similar forth block was not offered because of the lack of interest in the other blocks (lots 20-23). There were plenty of other examples where the bidding pattern did not conform to how people would bid.

Bids by potential buyers are real bids, whether they are made by proxy, telephone, internet or by people at the auction. Bids not made by potential buyers are phoney and deceitful, even if the terms and conditions "allow" it.

I expect Allsop's know the limit of this better than you or I. It applies to estate agencies and property development businesses (not auctioneers?). It was stated that Allsop's had not inspected the properties (although someone had put a sign outside each one) which might also be a defence. Had I bought a property on the basis of the catalogue I would certainly consider legal advice but, at the end of the day, many things are illegal (driving at 71 mph) yet they still happen. Correct me if I am wrong, but I suspect that a prosecution would involve some time and effort for little result.

No, the auctioneer was just heckled.

They certainly like to pretend they are bigger and better than everyone else. They claimed to sell over 90% of the properties. This was untrue for the auction I attended. They only have six offices and they are certainly a long long way from being largest auctioneer of properties in this area. If I was looking to invest 1b each year in London, I would be forced to deal with them perhaps. As this is not the case I have no qualms about neither dealing with them nor respecting them.

It is in the post.

In article , dp writes

That's up to the sellers, who swarm to use the firm rather than local houses. You might just as well castigate financial and legal firms based in London.

I didn't say reserves are the same or less. Guides are normally at or above reserves. There's not much point setting a guide below, as the seller has stated they will not sell at that level.

They are not phoney bids. Sellers instruct an auctioneer to bid against the floor up to the reserve. It is the norm rather than exception.

I suggest you learn how auctions work if you wish to participate.

What makes you think auctioneers would be excluded?

If you bought on the basis of the catalogue, you would have read the two pages of conditions and not had a legal leg to stand on.

They don't have to pretend. Take a look at the National Property Auction Index 2003, put together by Graham Slyper of Strettons based upon independent statistics from the Essential Information Group

They *average* sales of more than 90%.

How do you know? Just because the auctions are in London, it does not mean they are London properties. There are several other auction houses in the capital. Work through their lists and you are likely to find more of the property in your area is sold by them than any local.

Hardly a swarm. This year Allsops have auctioned 10 lots of property here in Hull. Just about any local property auctioneer will sell more than this in one afternoon.

If there wasn't a point it wouldn't happen. The point is to attract bidders to the auction.

It is the norm with bad auctioneers. If you are telling me it is the norm for London I would conclude there are no good auctioneers there. An honest auctioneer will only take bids from buyers. If this takes the bidding to below the reserve, they will state this and, if the reserve is nearly met, invite bidders into negotiations. It is deceitful to pretend, as Allsops and other similar auctioneers regularly do, that someone in the room is bidding when in fact such bids neither come from a potential buyer nor from someone in the room (inless you are counting the auctioneer as a genuine bidder!). Where bids were proxy bids, phone bids or internet bids, this was clearly stated. Where bids came from the inside of the auctioneer's head, the pretence was made that a potential buyer in the room was bidding. Aside from the deceit involved, it misleads buyers about the market value of a property.

I know how good auctioneers work and I know how bad auctioneers work. I regularly attend auctions held by the former.

So why did you suggest I looked at the legal implications of the Property Misdescriptions Act in your last post?

No. They say they average sales of more than 90%. For the last sale 97 out of 353 lots are currently listed as unsold. Even allowing for withdrawn lots you would have to be very imaginative to arrive at 90% from results like these.

By counting the number of properties they have offered in this area this year.