Obtaining details of old utility debt

Does the bill show the amount of energy used and the period of usage ? otherwise I would consider the bill is a wild guess on the supplier's part. Their records should show the contract details of the customer.

Have you still got a copy of the tenancy agreement ?

I have no bill, they have refused to supply me with a copy as requested. I have no idea what period the bill is supposed to be for or how it was calculated.

Somewhere, its all a bare minimum of 3 years ago so its all filed in a big box of unsorted stuff. Or I could get a copy from the letting agency should that be relevant. The problem is that I am only guessing that this relates to the period when the property was rented out. It could conceivably relate to the period prior to 1998 when I did live in the property and was genuinely responsible for paying the bills.

What I would like to do is force the debt collectors to stop these guessing games by providing me me some evidence of this alleged debt.

Assuming it's 3 years + 5 years since you had anything to do with British Gas relating to this property, doesn't that mean that they are statute barred in collecting any debt you might owe?

Assuming that is the case then perhaps you could write back explaining that any debt you might have is uncollectable. If the debt is more recent then it cannot be your debt however if they supply sufficient details you will give them what ever information you still have as to the tenant who was renting at the time.

It doesn't just have to be a tenant, it could be the people who bought the house who have pulled a fast one or maybe the meter was misread when ownership changed (and this does happen, even if the meter is read by an official meter reader)

Tim.

In message , snipped-for-privacy@mailandnews.com writes

This isn't unusual for a debt collection company. Bottom line, if they can't prove the debt then they can't enforce collection. Personally, I would write back to them to the effect that as they are unable to provide any details of how the alleged debt arose then I would be making no offer of payments and accepting no liability. Utility debts usually just move from collector to collector so expect similar letters from various collectors and give them similar answers until such time as some evidence of how you are responsible for the alleged debt is provided. You could also speak with Energywatch and the supplier's regulator regarding their refusal to supply details if you wish.

A collection agency tried that on me once and refused to give me a copy of the bill. I told them if they couldnt provide proof i woulld see them in court where they could explain there why they refused to provide it. They then sent the proof.

Recently i had a problem with british gas after the meter (pre-payment meter) was changed by southern electric. After 8 months or so british gas found that all my payments from that point on was paid to the wrong company! It took 7 months and a letter to the CEO of centrica to resolve the matter when they finally cleared all the non existent arrears and paid me compensation for all the fuss and agravation. Writing to the ceo has cured a problem with more than one company im pleased to say because thier staff take notice when the ceo tells them to resolve an issue.

So they've sent you a demand for a sum of money but, upon being asked to do provide you with an itemisation of the said demand, have refused (or are unable) to do so?

I'd be inclined to invite them to sue you - no District Judge would regard their behaviour as reasonable.

I'm struggling to figure out why I would have an unpaid bill from that period but yes this does seem possible at this point.

I am not sure that the usual 6 years even applies here, Ofgem may have restricted this to 2 years for this situation as of July this year in their ruling on the so-called "supercomplaint". To be honest I would still be willing to make payment of the original debt if it genuinely was my debt and my mistake, the thing is at this point the behaviour of the debt collectors make me suspect that this is not the case.

Which is largely what my first letter said. Repeating my first letter looks like a waste of recorded-delivery postage and I strongly suspect that anything not sent recorded delivery will mysteriously never have arrived.

A meter reading error was my first guess.

I've used energywatch to give BG a good seeing to in the past , they are very helpful and appear to have plenty of power when dealing with BG. If I were the OP I would pass it all over to them as it seems s/he has already made enough efforts to sort it out.

Steve

I don't hold any brief for debt collectors but from theior point of view they get told all sorts of plausible stories. Write another polite letter by recorded delivery with a copy to the CEO of the energy supplier stating the facts and asking for documentary proof. If they fail to produce it let them go to court.

Peter Crosland

In message , Peter Crosland writes

True enough, but it really shouldn't matter what they get told, true or untrue. If they are asked for proof of the debt they are collecting they should supply it.

I tend to agree in as much as it is better to treat them as if they are acting in good faith until they demonstrate otherwise. I have real doubts at this stage but will persist in being polite. It is damn annoying that I have to waste time and money on people who I have never heard of, never had any commercial relationship with, yet who make unsubstantiated demands for money that they claim is owed. I am pretty sure that any debt this old on which I have had no interim communication is uncollectable but if they approached me in an honest way with evidence that I had made a mistake and genuinely had a debt then I would pay it - the more the mess me around and waste my time the less goodwill remains for any such goodwill gesture.

I will also follow the avenue suggested by another couple of posters and take this up with energywatch - at the very least there is a clearcut case of refusing to follow the regulator's guidelines on billing.

The one other avenue that I might follow is to ask for their records under the data protection act, as their version of reality seems so at odds with anything I can make sense of it seems quite likely that they are holding inaccurate or false data on me.

Thanks all.

They do, but that's all the more reason why a competent outfit will have the necessary documentation ready to back up their claim.

They won't go to court. They'll just sell the debt on to another collector, to repeat ad infinitum.

Mark

That is what I am afraid of - it becomes unlimited drain on my time as I have to deal with an endless chain of outfits making unsubstantiated claims probably based on incorrect data. Which is why my main aim at this stage is to get the real facts so I can deal with the problem once and for all.

The main one is to refuse to pay up until they offer some evidence.

If it is prior to 1998, or indeed prior to 2000, it is out of time and they can't collect it.

In addition to that, Energywatch might also have something to say if this is the first you heard of it (and considering they won't provide any proof) - per their site...

----- I haven?t had a bill for ages ? do I still have to pay? Consumers are legally bound to pay for their utilities. However, the Limitations Act 1980 prevents charges being recovered if the electricity or gas was used more than six years ago. In Scotland this period is five years.

Suppliers should at least offer a payment plan that allows you to repay any debt over the same length of time that it has built up. In other words, if you have not had a bill from your supplier for three years then, when a bill does finally appear, you should be able to spread the repayments over three years. However, if you accept a payment plan then you will not be able to change your supplier until you have cleared the outstanding debt.

However, as a result of the ?super-complaint? submitted by energywatch in April 2005 to the energy regulator, Ofgem (see below), energy companies have been told that, as of July 2006, they should no longer bill for any energy used by consumers more than two years previously where the company themselves has failed to provide a bill. As of July

2007, energy companies will be expected not to bill for any amount that dates back longer than a year.

-----

Alternatively you could take them to court for making unsubstantiated claims for money. That should focus their minds.

When i was sorting out some problems for my wife with bank and credit card companies when she was ill i discovered that the debt companies would not take you to court, they HAD to refer it back to the credit card company etc. When you think about it even if the debt collector has bought the debt they havent bought it for the full value of the debt, only small percentage so if they take someone to court they could only claim what thier fees were not the value if the full debt. When ever one of them refused to talk to me about a sensible payment scheme i simply told them that if they wanted we would take out an adminsistration order at the county court. This usually resulted in them talking sense or sending it back to the credit card company. We now have a satisfactory payment solution that we can keep.

I'd be inclined to write to British Gas at their registered office and ask your questions there. Don't deal with debt collectors; in the main they're legalised thugs.

If BG cannot justify their claim for the money, I'd say to them "see you in court". It's 99% certain they'll never sue you.

A landlord is certainly not liable for debts incurred by his tenants.