TV Licence Fee

For the live streams, yes you need a licence. However you don't need one for the on-demand streams, and that is a lot more convenient that downloading torrents or from binary newsgroups, and it is also legal.

That's what I meant by "live TV shows".

Agreed.

Yes, although its a pity that so much of the on-demand stuff on BBC iPlayer is blocked for those of us living overseas. I realise there are ways around that restriction, which makes it seem a bit pointless them trying in the first place.

Chris

The point isn't to make it impossible for non-UK viewers to get the streams, the point is to make the rights holders think that it's impossible for non-UK viewers to get the streams :-)

Mark

If it stops 95% (just to make up random number) from watching iplayer, that's pretty good at minimal cost.

I doubt that it is. TVL certainly didn't ask me about income when I asked for it and I wouldn't have given them any such information anyway.

Regards,

I queried it with them.

They have replied that "there is a legal requirement to pay an additional £5 charge" hence the "licence fee is displayed as a whole and not split into licence fee and premium".

That's OK then.

What will this "legal requirement" be?

Dunno. Why didn't you ask them?

Ordinarily a "legal requirement" would be understood to be a requirement imposed by law (possibly a statutory instrument) on someone (in this case on the licensing authority), but I'm wondering whether it's merely a casual requirement imposed *by* them to help cover admin costs, and since it's not illegal, it must be "legal". :-)

That said, it's conceivable that the authority is bound, if it suffers additional costs as a result of offering this payment method, not to let it be subsidised by those who pay the fee in the usual way of a single annual up front payment. Ultimately this might lead to making an increase in the basic fee necessary.

Nevertheless, given that it is fairly common in the financial industry these days to offer monthly payment *without surcharge* (for insurance premiums for example), it is questionable whether the authority would in fact suffer increased costs at all.

Ronald Raygun wrote in uk.finance

That might be what TV Licensing claim, but it's bollocks.

I can't think of any other utility-type bill that "requires" payment for a year up-front, not electricity, not gas, not landline (although Bastard Telecon and some of their chums try to tie you into contracts of longer duration than the minimum short assured tenancy - go figure the fairness of that), not broadband, not mobile phone, not even Council Tax.

There's no justifiable reason whatsoever for any utility service to require up-front payment of more than one month's service (plus any

*justifiable* installation costs), and not even electricity or gas require that (post-pay).

(A minimum contract term (but not up-front payment for ongoing service further than a month ahead) of not longer duration than that of a short assured tenancy is probably reasonable enough in the case where genuine installation work has to be carried out (and has not been separately charged for up-front) to supply the customer, but that certainly doesn't apply to TV licensing (and it can hardly realistically apply to the Bastards asking Openreach to flick a switch at the exchange to re-activate a phone line which already exists, where surely only a token cost can be justifiable, if at all).)

And what about when you die? [1] Unless you've made it to the stage where you get a free TV licence, you've been forced to pay up-front for service that you haven't used (a nice little earner for TVL). No other utility (apart from the Bastards again, with quarterly line rental paid in advance, which must surely be hard to justify) makes you pay more than a month ahead for service as yet unused (and perhaps, as yet unneeded, for reasons not necessarily including death!).

[1] or leave the country, or..

I don't begrudge my news.bbc.co.uk/iPlayer/BBC-Radio contribution (with a scarce amount of broadcast TV on top), but TVL win themselves no friends with this contemptuous and morally bankrupt attitude.

(contd p94)

I don't know if it's what they claim, it's just my analysis, and it's not bollocks.

Well, actually BT do charge up front for landline rental. Not for a whole year, granted, but for a billing quarter. Council tax too is in principle chargeable up front (I gather that if you miss a monthly payment they may force you to pay the whole remaining balance immediately). Insurance premiums too are generally payable in full up front for the whole year, in some cases instalment options are available and these have historically involved a credit surcharge. Surcharge-free insurance premium plans are, I believe, a relatively recent development.

But this is not a utility service charge, it's a licence fee. The car licence fee is also payable for a year up front, with the option to pay for 6 months instead at substantially more than half the yearly fee.

Not true.

Even if you don't die, you are entitled to surrender your licence whenever you like (as you can with a car licence) for a refund in respect of the number of unused whole months. Presumably when you die (having lived alone), your executor can claim this refund on your behalf. If you die whilst not living alone, the surviving members of your household inherit the rest of your "unused" licence, so that it won't in fact be unused. So the household continues to be licensed until your existing licence expires. Incidentally this is the case even if you have a free over 75 licence and none of the remaining members of your household are over 75.

Oh come off it. You exaggerate beyond reason. It may be contemptible to have a TV licence fee at all (I think so), but given that it exists, its administration is not too bad. They're a little behind the times in not offering free instalment plans, but that's all.

As in the situation where "bollocks" means completely correct.

What on earth do "utility type services" have to do with TV Licensing?

It isn't a service of any type, never mind a "utility type" service.

It is a *licence*.

And almost all licenses or similar require full payment before the term of the licence starts.

You pay the whole sum due before they will issue a driving licence.

You pay the whole sum due before they will issue a shotgun licence.

You pay the whole sum due before they will issue a licence to sell alcohol.

etc.

What other utilities do is irrelevant

TV licensing DO require 12 months payment up front and if you don't do so then the extra payment does represent interest

tim

Which of course is completely arbitrary.

They could have chosen five-year licences, so that anyone paying at year at a time would have to pay interest.

Or monthly licences, so that only those paying a week at a time would need to pay interest.

They should forget these extra charges and just be grateful that that £142 for a licence (ie. already over £3 billion a year, or about £100 per second) is paid at all.