UK house prices about to fall over the cliff edge. Recession to follow ?

Don't look now, but housing's on a cliff edge

Nick Mathiason Sunday July 17, 2005 The Observer

The whole housing industry - builders, lenders, estate agents and sector analysts - refuses to admit that the market is heading for jagged rocks. But there is compelling evidence that it is. For shareholders, the best thing to do may be to clear out a sector that has in recent years delivered strong growth.

Never have British consumers been as overextended as they are today. Interest rates may be relatively low but capital repayments on homes, loans and credit cards mean debts as a proportion of income are worse now than they were in the late Eighties - the last great house-price disaster.

Barely noticed last week was the fifth successive monthly rise in unemployment. This trend will continue. The retail downturn will be exacerbated by increasing property rents, oil prices and business rates. The result will be enforced job cuts.

House builders will have to follow suit shortly. Economists at ABN Amro

reckon unemployment could go up by 500,000 in 18 months' time. And if there's one thing that sparks a house price meltdown, it's a forced seller.

After five years of record profits and whopping dividends, the chickens

are coming home to roost for house builders. Deteriorating conditions in the British housing market were underlined when George Wimpey revealed at the beginning of the month that its first-half results would be 'well below' previous figures. Shares in the housebuilder fell

by 2 per cent as it also admitted sales had tumbled by 17.5 per cent.

Last Thursday, Bovis - one of Britain's best-run and best-performing builders - said it might not hit its sales targets. The company was aiming for 3,150 sales in 2005. But in the first six months, it had only 1,302. Underlying house prices, based on square footage, fell 1.6 per cent.

So far, slowdowns have been blamed on over-dramatic comments by Bank of

England governor Mervyn King that ushered in interest rate rises from

3.5 to the current 4.75 per cent. This year, house price drift was pinned on uncertainty in the run-up to the election.

Homeowners and builders will next month breathe a sigh of relief if interest rates fall. But if sterling continues its recent decline, as is now widely feared, interest rates will be raised to fight inflation.

Whatever anyone says, house prices are on the edge of what may be a Niagara-like fall.

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Reply to
Crowley
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"curiosity" wrote

You assumed a & b were equal, so therefore (a-b) is zero - how do you divide by zero?

Your "proof" just boils down to: " 2 x 0 = 0 3 x 0 = 0 Therefore 2 = 3 ..."

Reply to
Tim

Sounds like good news to me. If my house halves in value, and a bigger one I'd like to move to also halves in value, that will save me a packet.

Reply to
Tumbleweed

"Crowley" wrote

Nope, still didn't notice it second time around!!

Care to point out the specific bit? [Ignoring the bogus headline, of course!]

Reply to
Tim

Its good news for anyone trading up.

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Reply to
Crowley

and there was that fellow who tried to sell his studio flat in bolton for £5,000,000 and ended up selling for £22,446

Reply to
abelard

Ah yes, the old "0/0" proof. You can prove anything with this, since 0/0 anything you want.

The flaw is of course, that before dividing both sides of any equation by a common factor you need to allow for that common factor being zero as an alternative to the equation given by your division being true.

Eg:

ax = ay

x = y is NOT necessarily true.

x = y OR a = 0

Reply to
Andy Pandy

Mr Booth Snr

You have not noticed the many job loses recently then???? Or are you like a lot of people in denial that house proces are being corrected as we speak.

If you get your local property paper I will be surprised if there are no houses with New Price, Reduced Price,

20,000 off for quick sale. The fact is that the UK is on a credit time bomb. A little interest rate cut is not going to help.

Alan.

Reply to
physman

aren't you the clever one then!!!

(it fooled me when I first saw it 45 years ago)

Reply to
curiosity

quite so, but no prizes i'm afraid.

Reply to
curiosity

What are BTL and FTB?

Reply to
Roger Cumberbun

Buy to let and first time buyer.

Reply to
Chris X

The U.S. has mortgage brokers and banks trying anything and everything to keep it going. Teaser mtgs at 1% for a short period, interest only mtgs and nothing down mtgs. 40 year mtgs are the newest one. Generally in America 30 yr is the most popular term followed by 15 yr plus the least popular 20 yr mtgs.

If rates go up a bit more an the adjustable adjust, which they do, then many Americans will be under water. People will have a $400,000 mortgage and their formerly $420,000 home could be worth $375,000 or less.

What is different this time is they made the bankruptcy laws tougher. I am not sure if people will be able to hand over the keys to the bank when they owe more than the house is worth. The consequences may be more severe under the new law. A lot of specualtors are playing with fire.

Reply to
Roger Cumberbun

In message , snipped-for-privacy@my-deja.com writes

How times change!! I remember my parents buying their first house when I was 4 - actually it was a shop with a flat over the top. We had no carpets in most of the property, and decorating took place over several years. I can definitely remember that the toilet was in the yard!!

These days, "people" seem to think that 1st time single buyers seem to have a God given right to a 3 bed semi, wherever they want it, in tip top condition, with all mod. cons., and that it is not fair that they cant afford it.

Reply to
Richard Faulkner

In message , snipped-for-privacy@aol.com writes

Not really a prime market indicator though?

In the late '80's and early '90's, (i.e. boom time), I was the salesperson, in the sales suite of a busy development, and it was actually rare for there to be anyone in the office, other than me - used to clean my car, and read a book. Still sold like hot cakes, for good prices.

Reply to
Richard Faulkner

In message , snipped-for-privacy@my-deja.com writes

If true, this confirms nothing more than the fact that their asking prices were too high.

I bought a house in August last year for £125,000 and, having decided that I shouldnt really have bought it, I put it on the market in January for £140,000. I've just exchanged contracts at £126,500.

So... using your anecdote, my asking price has dropped by 10%, but my selling price has increased by 1.2%

Therefore...... the true test is how much did their selling prices differ from the selling prices of similar houses 6 months, or a year, ago?

Reply to
Richard Faulkner

Unless they end up in negative equity. But yes, apart from that, house price falls are good news for people who own a house but want to trade up. Most people seem to thick to realise this though.

Reply to
Andy Pandy

So you feel that house prices are over-valued that you're willing to take a loss (cost of buying and selling a house is larger than 1.2%) to get rid of the house? I think that says more in favour of the crash predictors than your arguments.

Jim.

Reply to
Jim Ley

Where in his text does it mention his reason for selling it? Maybe he didnt like the area, the local schools, the neighbours, found a better house elsewhere, couldnt afford the repayments. Etc.

Reply to
Tumbleweed

In message , Jim Ley writes

I wasnt necessarily arguing against the crash predictors, I told the story to make it clear that actual, or anecdotal stories, relating to reduced asking prices tell us little about the market.

For example, one tactic of estate agents is to overvalue properties to get them on the market. If the market isnt moving upwards at an appropriate rate, these houses either dont sell, or have their prices reduced. The asking price is academic, as is any change in it.

Add more information, and you can draw some conclusions - like you did with my information. Having said that, you dont know why I sold it, nor why I was happy to take the hit. If my story were to be repeated across enough of the market to set a trend, then you could draw some real conclusions about the market.

Reply to
Richard Faulkner

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