Wire transfers and bank details.

This is effectively the same question that I asked here a few days ago. The response given was "Yes", but I still think the truth is more likely to be "No" -- at least until further checks are completed.

After all, it's very easy for the sender to enter a number wrongly.

Matti

If you try to send a BACS from an internet bank account, AFAIK the search process when you try to set up the arrangement prevents the use of the wrong name. If this is true for all methods of paying by BACS then the answer is 'no'.

Rob Graham

How then would it distinguish between Mr J. Bloggs, J. Bloggs, Joe Bloggs, Mr Joe Bloggs, Joseph Bloggs, J. R. Bloggs, etc?

Marcus

How would it even know the name in the first place. If I send a BACS transfer from say HSBC to NatWest I can enter what I like as the name.

Can you point be to the thread - I couldn't find it.

Matti

In message , Matti Lamprhey writes

Like what? An automated transfer has nobody to check it at the receiving end.

A simple error in the number of, say, a single digit or a transposition of numbers is likely to be picked by the number validation check, which merely checks that the number is part of the set of numbers allocated to that sort code, such as a modulus check. It cant check names against numbers.

In message , Rob graham writes

This is not so. Even if it were, the chance of the remitter inputting the name in exactly the same way as the account name is recorded in the recipients banks records is virtually nil.

Then why do all banks insist that the account name be entered? Do they just ignore it?

Matti

"Virtually nil"? Come on, old son, you English are supposed to be hot on understatement, but this sounds like a monumental exaggeration.

Would it not be more realistic to say there is some risk that the remitter might get it slightly wrong? After all, it will have been in the recipient's interest to make sure the remitter has his details exactly right (assuming the recipient suspected there'd be a risk of the transfer failing if the names didn't match), which in turn would mean the remitter would be relatively unlikely to get them wrong (unless he had a vested interest in the transfer failing).

By the way, when we order stuff online, or even by old-tech mail order, and give a credit card number, we are usually asked to enter our name exactly as it appears on the card. Are you saying this is unnecessary?

I think what JB's saying is that yes, it is *usually* ignored. But it's a good idea to have it there just in case it might become necessary to check it later, in the event of a query, such as a customer saying that some money has appeared in their account and they don't want it. :-)

So that the remitters intention is clear, for money laundering purposes and to help with any queries that may arise.

No, they just keep it.

In message , Ronald Raygun writes

Not at all. My statement is derived form my direct personal experience over a number of years.

"Some"? More like "a huge"

On the contrary, most bank customers get it wrong. The standard account name format is "Smith J S & M A". As the other poster points out, there are loads of variations on this. J&M Smith, John Smith & Mrs Smith. Mrs Smith etc.,...

If we go back to the days when most regular bills were paid by standing order (as opposed to direct debit) the payer had to supply the bank with the payee's account details. If they had lost the form which the payee had sent them (which was usually the case) they would write the details down. In the majority of cases it would be wrong in some respect. This isnt an opinion, it is fact.

No I am not. I havent mentioned credit cards at all. I dont know how that bit works.

The account name is printed on their cheques. It is not beyond the wit of man, or woman for that matter, to dictate it verbatim to the remitter.

I don't understand the particular scenario you're trying to describe. If the payer had lost the payee's form, there would *be* no details to get right *or* wrong.

I don't believe you. I believe that mistakes happen(ed), but not in "the majority" of cases. Perhaps you're describing it from the other end, i.e. something like in the majority of cases where something was wrong, it was due to a customer's transcription error.

Besides, standing orders are not yet a thing of the past, and there are many bank customers who will set up SO instructions by internet banking, which involves them copying the details which have been supplied to them on paper. If this were to go wrong in the majority of cases, the facility would be withdrawn due to being in effect unworkable.

I didn't claim you had mentioned them, I only mentioned them because there are similarities, though I suppose the pressure to keep the error rate low is perhaps higher when you're allowing someone to pull money instead of pushing it.

If I am sending you money, do I send it to Ronald Raygun, Mr Ronald Raygun, Mr R Raygun, R Raygun, Ronald J Raygun, Mr Ronald J Raygun, Ronald Joseph Raygun, Mr Ronald Joseph Raygun, or no doubt others could think of alternatives.

Well, it wouldn't. But I expect it would if you spelt Bloggs S M I T H.

Rob

In message , Ronald Raygun writes

No. The name the customer wants is printed in the cheques. I have never had a cheque book within which the pre printed cheque forms bore a printed name which was the same as the account name.

'Dictate'? Are you saying this is infallible? You scots in particular mess this up with you Mc & Mac's.

Many years ago a fellow banker originating from north of the border who worked n the same bank building as myself telephoned from his office above and asked me for an 'A' Form (which was a commonly used internal form). I sent one up by messenger. A short while later he phoned again asking me for the 'A' form. I said Id already sent it, he didnt believe me, so I sent another. A short while later the highly infuriated scotsman phoned again demanding his 'A' form. I told him I has sent two already, he said 'you f****** deaf ignorant Sassesanacht! youve sent me two 'A' forms!" I told him that was what he asked for. He yelled "NO! You ******* ***** ******* **** not an ****** "A" FORM! I said "EH" for EGG!"

No, he would remember how it sounded or what he thought was correct. I.e. rates bill paid by standing order could be Liverpool City Council Liverpool Corporation. LCC. Corporation of Liverpool. Town Hall, etc.,

What! You challenge my word as a gentleman?

Pistols at dawn Sir!

I demand satisfaction!

Well you are wrong, I am sorry to be so blunt about it.

No.

Yes. Which is exactly why the banks dont check the payees name against the account number !

(touche!)

I think you are right.

No, of course it's not infallible, there's always room for error, but not enough, I say, for the majority of attempts to fail.

What's all this about Mcs and Macs? They shouldn't cause much confusion because, I'm told, any comparing algorithm worth its salt, e.g. as used for sorting lists for phone books, treats them as the same, so you do *not* get a whole bunch of MacDonalds followed by all the McDonalds, but they are interspersed, and sorting of their initials, and their addresses, takes priority over the Mac/Mc bit. Likewise MacDonald and Macdonald are also distinguished at low priority if at all.

A likely story. Are you sure it wasn't a yorkshireman? That's probably North enough of the border as far as you're concerned. Well, Northeast, at least.

I'm not aware of any regional Scots accent in which an E would be pronounced to sound like an A to a "normal" English speaker. Could it have been the other way round?

What I meant was, if he'd lost the form, he'd be stuffed anyway. He can guess the name, but he can't guess the account/branch numbers. If he has the numbers available, the name can't be far away.

I'm sorry too, you used to be so sharp.

Are you sure? Make up your mind.

You'd send it to whatever I told you at the same time I gave you my account and branch numbers.