When will the Blair, Brown, Geldof gang learn?

When will the Blair, Brown, Geldof gang learn that that money given to corrupt wasters will be wasted.
Billions has been wasted in Africa on white elephants and arms. The
countries in Africa will fail to learn the value of money if they keep getting their debts cancelled.
If they don't have enough money then they can borrow some more, and if they default on payments they should be subjected to special terms like individuals in the UK. At least by following some rules they should learn to value prudence.
Why should I get up at 07:30 228 days a year and leave the house for 11.5 hours each time to pay for Africans to sit in the shade? The African countries have been independent long enough to take responsibility for their condition, anything else is neo-colonialism.
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Dave wrote:

I quite agree. They should take unilateral action and tell their debtors (ie us) that we can stick their repayments up our arse.
Ian
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They are sovereign nations, they are, and always have been able to tell us to stick our repayments up our arse. Now why dont they? Clearing third world debts might in the short term ease the problems of some nations, but it offers nothing more then a short term solution. The problems of Africa are African, they are not the fault of Europe, America or anyone else. Our attitude to Africa does not help the situation, our restrictive trade practices penalise agricultural producers, yet we preach that these nations should open their own markets. The problems of Africa will not be solved by ending third world debt, by increasing aid, or by 'fair trade', it will only be solved by Africa themselves, our efforts to help have been many ways conterproductive, and we seem to have learnt little.
Gaz
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some

situation,

we

They could not get their act together in the thousands of years that they lived in Africa unconcerned with the civilizations developing elsewhere to the north and east. Do not expect them to now. bliar is just throwing British taxpayers' money down the drain.
R
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He has utterly failed everywhere else and is simply casting about for something vaguely creditable for which he hopes he'll be remembered.
At present, he's going to be remembered for lying to Parliament, lying to the electorate, handing sinecures to his lying cronies, selling honours, killing thousands in five wars of which Iraq is simply the most patently illegal, fiddling elections, arranging the exposure of David Kelly, increasing taxes 68 times, putting the middle class on benefits, and manufacturing a very nasty credit bubble.
And that's putting a bit of a shine on it.
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Gaz wrote:

I imagine out of fear as to how those creditors would act - namely cutting off their aid. Debt relief has to be approved by the debtors if its going to work. In the rich part of the world we don't need Africa's money - not that desperately.

Exactly. "Free trade" does of course refer only to ourselves if we can get away with it. At the same time, we're always going to be doing most of our trade with our closest neighbours, so its not as if Africa is going to suddenly dominate if we truly liberalised the markets.

We need both. You're right that there's no point giving any help to Africa if its ggoing straighht into Mugabe's pocket or funding those nasty civil wars they seem enamoured with. The people in Darfur are desperately poor, but its the Janjaweed thats causing them to die in such high numbers. Africa's governments need to eradicated the coruption and nepotism thats plagued them if this is toy work in the long term.
Thats part of the solution. the other part is alleviating the abject poverty which has driven the corruption and nepotism. Africa fights over scant resources because they are scant - give everyone a chance of existing and the need will be removed - that just leaves human greed to tackle.
Ian
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One wonders why African's parents choose to have children that number in two digits. Being so tolerant of other cultures, I can only conclude that they have good reason for it, in their own terms, and the starvation that logically follows is part of that culture. Perhaps we should leave well alone instead of imposing our imperialistic and monocultural ideas.
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Most if not all agrerian pre-industrial and semi industrial societies have large nuumbers of offspring, on the assumption that most would not reach adulthood. It was the same here in the UK....
Gaz
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In the UK and much of Western Europe most of the children died to diseases and frailty not due to malnutrition. Cases of famine were few and the response of the survivors was to cultivate and conserve more, not have larger families. In Africa it appears that Africans choose not to take this as a lesson to be learnt, suggesting a cultural inclinations that guarantees famine however much aid is supplied.
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'Cases of famine were few'
I dont think this is quite true, the masses/peasants/serfs in pre industrial societys where constantly on the verge of starvation, a bad harvest could equal many dieing. Ireland didnt have the monopoly on famines.
Pre-industrial society was, to outrageously misquote Hobbes, "poor, nasty, brutish and short".
Gaz
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I dont think they had a famine every other week. When Englishmen have famines they give them names. African faminines are distinguished by the names of the days of the week.
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Something to eat when the next famine hits town?
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

For two main reasons
1. Because most of them die before they reach adulthood. 2. They need them to help on the farm etc.
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They die of starvation and malnutrition related diseases. There is not enough to farm, because the country is in perpetual famine. The growth rate of the population ensures that population always exceeds food supply, and this has been sustained for at least 55 years as far as I gather.
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X-No-Archive: yes
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com writes

I thought this Malthusian ghost had been kicked into the long grass? A population cannot exceed its food supply but it can exceed food management and distribution skills. I recall a former commonwealth secretary commenting that food to relieve famine in Ethiopia could be bought in Addis Ababa. In other words the food was there. The problem was that distributing free food would bankrupt local farmers who would abandon their farms and head for the city. This suited wholesalers because it drove up the value of their stocks.
--
James Follett. Novelist. (G1LXP) http://www.jamesfollett.dswilliams.co.uk
"Return of the Eagles", the last book in James Follett's 'Eagles' trilogy
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Well as babies grow their food demands increase, food supplies can fluctuate to facilitate pregnancy. Food supplies can increase allowing a population to expand then expand again unto famine.
Does the argument against that ghost take into account these factors?
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com writes

Please repost enough material to provide context in follow-ups. Crystal balls are not always reliable even if their shape is appropriate.
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JF wrote:

Im expected to explain every little thing...
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If you would give some hint as to where you are talking about you might make more sense.
snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

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It's a survival strategy. If famines periodically wipe out 80% of the population you need 10 children to perpetuate your line. If everyone has 10 children you'd better have 20.
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