Advice re missing cheque

I had some trouble deciding which group to post this in, as it's hardly 'finance'!

My 88 year-old mother-in-law has a Lloyds current bank account. Despite our protests, she has maintained the habit of withdrawing £1,000 every Christmas, by turning up at the bank and signing a cheque made to 'Cash'. She was dismayed to find on a recent statement that there had been a withdrawal in March for £1,000 that she insists was not by her.

There is one cheque missing from her new cheque book, with cheques apparently still left unused in her old one. She believes that cheque must have been stolen. My wife and I are tending towards thinking she withdrew it herself and has forgotten. However, although her mental faculties are getting weaker, when it comes to money she has always seemed pretty reliable. As possible evidence supporting her belief she says there is nothing in the cheque book to show what the payment was, whereas she always makes a note (she says).

Yesterday my wife phoned Lloyds (we live 190 miles away), and the bank is 'tracing' the cheque and sending a copy to my mother-in-law.

Has anyone ever been in a similar situation, directly or indirectly please? What if anything can we do if this copy appears to contain her signature but she still maintains it was not her withdrawal? Do banks simply hand over £1,000 cash to anyone who presents a cheque at the counter with a signature on it? What steps do they take to ensure authenticity?

Any advice would be much appreciated pease.

Reply to
Terry Pinnell
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One thing you should ascertain is which branch the cheque was presented to. Clearly if that is her regular branch it makes it all the more likely she wrote it. If it is a branch somewhere else then be suspicious.

Mine (Barclays) doesn't - in fact I have to provide two forms of ID for this type of thing.

You should ask them what their procedures are - and see if they followed them.

Reply to
Wireless Reader

X-No-Archive: yes In message , Terry Pinnell writes

If an HSBC teller doesn't see you actually sign the cheque, you're asked to sign it on the reverse. I often use branches where I'm not known and the signature is compared with an image of my signature on the teller's screen which can be called up with a simple keyboard instruction. These somewhat self-evident measures were largely as a result of a survey by Eddie Wetherall of IBAS that showed HSBC in a bad light.

Reply to
JF

Very definitely a uk.finance type question. This is a very broadly based group, but does spend a lot of time on consumer finance issues.

We sign cheques as cash at work for petty cash- generally a hundred pounds rather than a thousand.

The cashier always asks me to sign the back, but has never asked for ID. Some of my colleagues have been, but the bank accepted their company (unsigned) ID card.

If the signature on the cheque is clearly not that of your mother-in-law then the bank should refund it fairly readily.

Neb

Reply to
Nebulous

In message , Terry Pinnell writes

Wait until you see the cheque. It may take a little time for them to retrieve it from store but warn them at the outset that it is potentially in dispute as to fraudulent signature and then they will make sure as few a people touch it as possible.

Before going to the bank, get the numbers of the recent cheques that she agrees are hers and get the bank to check the signature on the disputed cheque against her signature on the recent cheques as well as against the specimen signature held by the bank. Sigs change over the years and elderly peoples can often change quite rapidly.

When you get it, (or get to see a facsimile which could possibly be available more quickly than the actual cheque, depending on how it was presented for payment) the signature should be the main piece of evidence and may settle it for her (and you) there and then.

If you are unsure then look at the payee of the cheque. Until you see it you have no way of knowing if it was for cash or to whom it was payable. This should be another clue to the cheque genuineness as well and may jog her memory or make an even stronger case that it wasnt her.

If the payee is 'cash' then ask the bank what made the cashier satisfied that it was being presented by the drawer. (BTW I assume it was a 'crossed' cheque?)

If the signature is obviously dodgy, then report it the police ASAP and in person. At the police station take some recent stuff with her signature on.

If you believe the cheque is fraudulent then the Police must be involved. She may also have a case against the bank for negligence.

If it is fraudulent the clues are: the payee and the collecting bank (i.e. the bank branch over whose counter the cheque was presented).

Yes, but from the other side of the counter.

V.difficult. You will have a difficult decision to make I fear.

No. They should identify the drawer. Different banks have different systems but they should be asking for ID at that amount. What makes you think it was drawn for cash over a bank counter though? Couldnt it have been given to somebody in payment?

The checks involved vary according to whether the cheque was presented for cash over the counter or used as payment to a third party. IN the former then she would likely only be able to get the cash at her own branch were she may be well known. A £1k withdrawal should require a signature check, and some banks still use signature cards in the branch and other have it all on line. Some on line systems are local and some are national. Many will ask for separate ID anyway. Having said all that (and I hope you dont mind me saying this) sometime older people get a bit tetchy about ID especially when they have been going to the same branch for more years than the manager is old and it then becomes difficult and ID check may falter.

If the cheque wasnt cashed but used to pay a third party then nobody will ever have looked at it as it is likely below Lloyds limit for looking at cheques. Also, it wont be at the branch at which she banks, it will likely still be at the collecting bank who will only provide a facsimile in the short term.

You seem to be taking a sensible and pragmatic attitude and you obviously realise that the use of another cheque book and no filled in stub mean nothing in isolation.

Please let us know the outcome.

Reply to
john boyle

In message , JF writes

Good stuff!

Sorry, they had nothing to do with it.

Reply to
john boyle

Thanks very much. Greatly appreciate all those helpful replies.

Apparently it will take 'up to 2 weeks' to get the cheque copy, but I will report back with the outcome.

One other line of detective work I tried last night was to crudely estimate my mother-in-law's cash expenditure (including irregular items like recent birthday gifts for her 3 daughters). At the start of June she said she had about £200 left from her Christmas withdrawal. By our reckoning:

- If she HAD withdrawn another £1,000 in March, she should have £600 left

- But if she had NOT done so, then she should have run out of cash around the middle of May.

So ... inconclusive!

Reply to
Terry Pinnell

A couple of observations for what they're worth...

The fact that the missing cheque was for the same amount as she herself always writes adds weight to the forgetfulness idea.

If the cheque was missing from the middle of the new book, it's strong evidence of a crime; if it was the first cheque it would suggest forgetfulness.

Matti

Reply to
Matti Lamprhey

I managed to end up with about 3 cheque books on one account once. That was a bit messy on the statements as for a while I'd mixed and matched chequebooks...

Reply to
mogga

Agreed, although you could argue otherwise. As the annual £1,000 is the main use she apparently makes of the cheque book, a thief with the opportunity to look at the old book would then presumably copy that as well as her signature!

Agreed.

We'll now await the copy!

Reply to
Terry Pinnell

My mother-in-law received the copy cheque yesterday. It was her signature! Mind you, she says she still has no recollection of going to the bank and cashing it... ;-(

Reply to
Terry Pinnell

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