CRAZY Bond Trades on InvestingInBonds

Any bond ticker I have looked at - such as the ones showing trades on investinginbonds.com - show really crazy trades for almost any bond. A typical pattern for one bond is as shows here:

02/27/2009 10:18:00 100.353 2.054 5K 02/26/2009 11:15:42 100.345 2.002 15K 02/26/2009 11:14:00 100.444 0.755 15K 02/24/2009 15:03:50 97.000 38.404 15K 02/24/2009 15:03:50 98.000 27.501 15K 02/24/2009 15:00:31 99.011 16.696 15K

Because the above bond is close to maturity, small swings down in the price have a big effect on the yield. Even accounting for the accrued interest on the bond, buying this bond at 97 or 98 when the principal repayment is on

4/1/2009 gives a great return. If you look at the last few months of trading activity on this bond, only three times did it trade at $98.5 or below, from hundreds of trades. So these trades at $97 and $98 are not normal.

Assuming you had a view of bond offers from many different bond desks - which I know is hard for a retail investor to get - would a retail investor have any shot at all of capturing these anomalous pricing events? My cynical side is telling me that these strange price glitches are not honest trades at all. I am figuring that one bond desk is doing some special favor for another bond desk, and the trade was never really available to anyone outside that private collaboration.

How often would a vigilent retail investor who had a view of many bond desks get such opportunities?

Reply to
W
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Not crazy at all, as they are all odd lot trades. Odd lots have wide spreads. The dealer buys on the bid and sells on the offer. The retail investor sells on the bid and buys on the offer, so zero such opportunities.

You must become a bond dealer if you want to profit from the odd lot spread.

Unless you are doing round lots and have the proper expertise it is best to stay away from the market for individual bonds.

Reply to
catalpa

Assuming I have a way to call my broker, tell him the name of the dealer to buy from (based on knowledge I have about which dealers have offers at different prices), and the limit price for the order, I should not have to contend with the spread.

I realize the bond market has poor liquidity and very bad transparency. I have some limited data on offers from each bond dealer. I want to find a bond broker that will only charge me a flat rate commission and not markup the bond price, as long as I do the legwork to find the bond desk to buy from. There are a few bond dealers who claim to do that. Reality might be different from advertising.

How does the situation improve for a round lot? I would have assumed most retail buyers are subject to the bid/ask spread in any case?

Reply to
W

The rest snipped

The way it works for bonds which are not exchange traded is that there are bond dealers who buy bonds when offered for sale. The offering price is what the dealer thinks it is worth (maturity date, size of lot, rating, coupon and a fudge factor) less a discount. The dealer then offers the bonds for sale at what he thinks it is worth at the time of sale. Usually there is a fixed fee for the transaction. That is why the holder of a few bonds gets screwed if he tries to sell before maturity.

On the other hand if a dealer bought a bunch of say GM bonds before the really bad news came out he would take a big loss

Reply to
Avrum Lapin

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