joint checking acct

Sorry to hear about your dad. :-\

You are correct that she doesn't want to be too quick to tell the bank about his passing--there's really no upside to it as all that might happen would be that it interrupts her cash flow on direct deposits. Where she may have a need to deal with this on the banking end is in checks that come in his name without his being able to endorse them.

This all can get sticky. Is there a Will in place? I'd run this question by the attorney that is handling that. This surely is something within their purview that they can best advise on.

Best Regards,

-- Todd H.

Thank you for responding, Todd.. Yes, not only a will in place, but they did, prodded by me, the appropriate estate planning such that both mom and dad have a living trust which, upon either's death, becomes an irrevocable trust with me, the son, as successor trustee. The part Im a still a little fuzzy about is that the trust of the deceased somehow gets subdivided between the A 'Marital' trust and the B 'Family trust'. I understand how they are to be used, ie, the 'B' trust to secure the maximum allowed estate excusion.. But the part im a little fuzzy on is I was under the mistaken impression that my father's trust would be dissolved and split up into this A and B trust .. Instead, the lawyer tells me my father's trust remains in tact, but is some how used to fund the A and the B trusts that are somehow held within my father's trust. Its the relationship between my father's trust, and the A/B trusts I need to learn more about. At the appropriate time, I know the lawyer will fill me in.. For right now, all I need to do is provide him with the proper acct and asset valuations at time of death for the assets held in his trust. Thats for tax purposes... Apparently we have 9 mos from time of death to file. In addition, I believe the lawyer will use these valuations to fund the A and B trusts, making sure that the B side gets the full amount of the federally allowed exclusion, using the time of death valuations. Its all a bit complex, but very common, and thank goodness, theres plenty written about it. Ive found the Nolo book called 'Plan Your Estate ' to be particularly useful.

Paul

"Todd H." wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@ripco.com...

======================================= MODERATOR'S COMMENT: Please trim the post to which you are responding. "Trim" means that except for a FEW lines to add context, the previous post is deleted.

JTWROS (joint tenant with right of survivorship) means just that -- the surviving tenant(s) take over the account, which means money already in it, not future payments that she may not even be entitled to anymore.

If "most" of "about half a dozen" monthly deposits are in the deceased's name, that means maybe four or five -- so what's the big deal about notifying four or five institutions, especially if it's already been a couple of weeks? Why would this take another few months? Shouldn't the executor of your dad's estate be handling these tasks? This situation is obviously pretty common, why don't you just let the bank follow its existing procedures instead of trying to do an end run around them?

My guess is you're inviting more trouble by unnecessarily delaying any notifications, not the least of which is an appearance of impropriety. Lots of things change at the moment of death, such as beneficiaries and heirs springing into existence, commencement or cessation of various powers of attorney, termination of annuity-type payments such as Social Security and pensions (perhaps followed by the beginning of survivor payments in a different amount), and so on. You should not assume that these half-dozen monthly direct deposits are simply going to be "switched" to your mom's name and go on indefinitely, or even one month, as if nothing else had changed.

Oh, by the way, IANAL.

-Mark Bole

If they have a trust, the bank account should be titled in the trust. I.e., it shouldn't be a joint account, but a trust account. The only thing that has changed is the names of the trustees.

Dave

My experience: After the bank was notified of my wife's passing they put a hold on all direct deposits. Deposits with her name (her social security) were returned to sender. Deposits with my name (social security, pension, auto transfer) were reviewed manually and then deposited after a delay of 1 or 2 days. That condition prevailed until I told the branch manager that I would sever a 30 year relationship and move to a competitor across the street. The manager did something on her computer and that fixed the problem.

This meshes with my (albeit limited and anecdotal) experience with this. The folks I know who had a trust set up had titled their accounts to have the account holder be the trust and not the individuals. When one party passed away, little to nothing had to be changed with the accounts.

Now, how to handle it now ... I'm not sure. This becomes more of a changing from a joint account to a trust account issue. I still think the attorney who's privvy to the will may be the best resource to weigh in on this.

Best Regards,

-- Todd H.

This is a tough conversion - it's somewhat like the change from employment to retirement where we have to change our direct deposits, arrange for different tax treatments, etc., only on a larger scale, and while emotionally fragile. Plus, being elderly makes everything seem much more overwhelming.

My experience is that despite all our plans, best intentions, etc., there will be oversights, screw-ups (a technical financial term) and snafus as you work through the process. My recommendation is to take your blood pressure meds, exercise regularly, sip a few cool ones and try to get through it. I've found that, miraculously, after a few months everything works out ok.

Personally, I would notify all payers ASAP - delaying notification just results in over payments which must be returned, creating yet more paperwork, explanations, etc.

Yet another reason we all need a cash reserve.

-HW "Skip" Weldon Columbia, SC

Excellent point.

-Will

If you understand what an AB trust is, then you know that its purpose is to hold the amount of the Estate exclusion, currently, $2 mil. With trusts funded on both sides with amounts that would clearly fill up that exclusion, funding the checking account to a trust would be superfluous,ie, serve no useful value in that regard.. Hence, the only assets that made it into the trusts were large assets.. Checking accts often dont get used to fund AB type trusts.

Skip, great response. Ive tried to explain to mom that we dont want to notify her joint checking acct bank that the joint owner of her account is deceased until all the depositers that are putting dad's name on the direct deposits she receives have changed the deposit accts over to her name only. But this often takes time, especially when it involves pensions and/or annuities. Since it often involves change of ownership of an annuity, if thats involved, they have to send mom paperwork to fill out, and she needs to send it back.. By the time this all happens, and, the institution implements the change, it can be 2 or 3 billing cycles in some cases! When all this is complete, thats when it seems best to notify her checking acct branch and not before. This is a small town branch of a big bank.. I recall mom telling me that if a payer of hers sends a check to be deposited in dads name, her bank would allow her to sign his name in front of them and then they would accept the deposit into their joint checking acct! I could hardly believe it, but thats what she told me.

Lastly, there is one monthly direct deposit she receives that we have no idea what it is or how to contact them. We're positive its in Dad's name, and, its for a few hundred dollars and reads AXA Equitable, and, there is a number on the direct deposit that looks to me like an acct number. Its a montly payment, and the direct deposit is made the same time every month for the same amount. I have online access to the joint checking acct, so with the acct number I got off the direct deposit info for axa equitable, I called a few of the axa divisions yesterday, but upon giving each dad's ss number or the acct number from the direct deposit, Nobody was able to identify him as a member, nor the payment! So, Im afraid mom is just going to lose that income after we notify the bank of dad's death. The only thing I can hope for is, after the deposits start getting rejected, that axa equitable will send a letter to mom/dad to discuss the returned payments, and off that letter she can get some contact info. IF that doesnt happen, I think she'll just lose the monthly income. Luckily, Ive been able to track down all the other payers and notify them. Now we just have to wait for them to change their systems over to reflect the change. Once this happens, we will notify the bank.

Paul

Do you have a Power of Attorney for her? You should get that while she's still competent enough to execute it and to know what she's signing.

Elizabeth Richardson

My wife passed away earlier this year. She had only one direct deposit, her paycheck. By the time I notified the bank (Bank of America), her last paycheck had cleared, so there was nothing left to stop. They did not put a hold on direct deposits that were in my name only. Also, I notified her personnel office immediately, so by the time they got around to cutting a check for unused vacation time, it was made out to my name.

Well, of course the other main advantage of a trust is to avoid probate. And for this, all of your assets should be in the trust. In my case, everything my wife and I own are in our trust, including our checking accounts, house, cars, and even furniture, clothing, and personal effects. Why leave something out and have to probate it?

That must be a Seligman thing. When my father died, my mother took over as sole trustee by presenting a copy of the trust and the death certificate. I think the tax id stayed the same, and a Form 1041 is filed for the trust.

Dave

Exactly, DAve. Its a Seligman thing.. Other accounts we have didnt require the steps that Seligman does. For Seligman to use their 'change of ownership' form to trigger the procedures necessary to make a simple change of Trustee, especially when you consider that a change in trustee has nothing to do with a change in ownership, it makes me wonder how amenable Seligman funds are to fiduciary relationships.

Paul

If she's "senile" (for sufficient values of self-diagnosed "senile") , it's already waaaayyyy too late to do that legally.

You're probably right. You're in fine form this morning. Not a good holiday?

Truthfully, glad to see you posting, Sgt Sausage, you make a lot of sense around here.

Elizabeth Richardson

I already have it.. But in case you didnt know, a general durable power of attorney, it turns out, is very often times not accepted by a bank. They need their own POA forms filled out.. Gotta love it. Well, at least if I have to put dear old mom in a home, I can use her own funds to pay for it by paying the bills using her checks, signed by me under the general POA authority.. That i can do with a general poa, and dont need a banks specific one. Gets complicated, but thats how it works.

paul