Online Bill Pay - 2 questions--

I have been using paytrust.com for a number of years, not only to pay bills on line, but also to get complete bill presentment. Early on, I had a few vendors that could not handle a Billing address that was not the same as my Home address, or demanded that I enclose their bill stub. I stopped doing business with them. Fortuanatly, none of them were my gas & electric company! Now, when I get a complaint about no stub, or whatever... First, I tell them tuff crap ... thats the way it is... deal with it! I have not had any problems with that approach yet. If I do, and its not the Gas & Electric company, I will tell them to buzz off. I have success "tuff crapping" the Real Estate tax people, loan companys, Cell Phone providers ... and many others, they all decided they could figure it out.

Some of these companies think we exist to follow their rules.

Interesting discussion as I'm trying to move away from paper checks as much as possible too.

What method do you use for paying for groceries? I'm not wild about using a credit card for such purchases and while a check cashing card or ATM card are usually accepted by most grocery stores today, they usually require input of your pin number so I rarely use such a card except in emergencies when I must use the ATM.

I'm not sure who you are asking, but I use a debit card for groceries, and yes, I do have to input a pin.

There are new ways coming (or maybe here) where you only have to swipe the card for it to work. I am not sure how they get around a possible loss of the device to keep it from being misused.

Clark

Thank you for your response.

I have concerns about inputting pin numbers, especially in the grocery store and was curious if other "checkless" individuals were using other alternatives to such a solution.

My feeling about the debit cards/check cards, etc. is that the more you are in a position to have to input a pin number, the greater the likelihood of it being picked up by someone else and there's no privacy in a grocery line. Often, there's someone right next to you who could easily look over your shoulder when you use that terminal. That's always bothered me so I rarely use such cards at the grocery store.

It's 100% doable. Has been for 10 years.

What's there to not be wild about? What's so bad about entering a pin number?

IMHO Losers Write Checks .

What might those "concerns" be or are you just gonna leave us in the dark here? Don't tell me you're one of those paranoid people!

My god you are. You could always ask people to give you space or cover it up with your hands or whatever... Oh, I see, you're embarrassed by your paranoia. Gee a wonder why...

Then write checks. But watch out! Somebody might read the MICR on the bottom with your account number!

I think it's easier for someone to pick up a 4 digit pin than your eight digit account number, at least by looking over your shoulder and usually my hand is covering the account number or a portion thereof. Obviously, that doesn't stop a store employee but I think the check is safer in this circumstance.

Thanks.

That may be but here's a real world data point - I've been "checkless" for 10 years. For most other purchases I use my ATM card or a credit card. I've never, repeat never, been the victim of any identity theft nor fraud. Furthermore I'd venture to guess that 80-95% of all Americans haven't either.

Can it happen? Sure. So can a nuclear attack or me getting hit by a bus. I don't live my life in paranoid - it's too short to worry about. True, one must take reasonable precautions and I believe I already am taking reasonable precautions. So far I'm correct.

What on earth have you got against paying for groceries with a credit card? If the CC company is OK with lending you their money for a few weeks and pay you 1% (sometimes more) of the grocery bill for doing so why would you decline?

For many people, it's difficult to manage their expenses with credit cards. I was leery for several years. The concern is that you might think of it as "free money". It' how some very smart people can get themselves into credit card debt problems. There's some sense to spending only what you have on hand. It took me a while to accept that my spending habits would not change when I started to charge daily expenses. Now I charge *everything* including bills.... I only use an ATM card to access an ATM and have probably written

Andrew DeFaria wrote in news:43dc34bb$0$96016 $ snipped-for-privacy@news.sonic.net:

I agree completely. However, here's another data point (didn't happen to me, but to my SOL, living in Bergen County, NJ, who has traveled before, but lately hasn't):

He received a call from the credit card bank asking whether he was in London, UK, yesterday and had charged a fairly large amount (but not too much) at a particular store. He hadn't, so the bank said, OK, we will cancel the charge, and send you a new card.

I always wonder what happens when you're not home at the moment of the call, because: a) you're at the grocery store b) you're now in France

I am guessing that this particular case is just some crazy transpositioning of the credit card number, or someone made it up.

"Hank Arnold" wrote in news:G51Df.640$ snipped-for-privacy@fe11.lga:

This is a very real concern, especially for younger people. When in college they're showered with free credit cards, and are in a (peer) environment where must-have gadgets abound, and other expenses come often in large amounts (study or entertainmment or whatever). *NOBODY* teaches them budgeting or saying no to these seductions. I have been both happy and unhappy at the same time about this at several time points. Happy, because I was able to help, unhappy that it did happen. Hopefully all the lessons to be learned have now been thoroughly appreciated and absorbed.

I agree with Andrew, that this is overly paranoid.

But if it troubles you so, just elect to have your debit treated as a credit card transaction. Internally it does the same thing as a debit - takes the money from your checking account almost immediately. But externally, you sign a chit as you would with a true credit card purchase ... no pin number required.

Simple. Go to the store and charge up $134.32 then return home and immediately write a check for $134.32 to the credit card company. Repeat as necessary. There you have not spent money you don't have!

Teaching them budgeting, etc. WTF? It's simple. Don't spend money you don't have! If you don't have the money to bank up that credit card purchase then you can't afford it - period - end of story. Teaching people how to become in debt it stupid.

These are college people - surely they can understand a concept this simple.

Hmmm... I see you agree completely with me then proceed to describe the exception to the rule effectively saying you don't really agree at all! Wonderful!

Why do we sign credit card purchases when it means absolutely nothing!

Either that of if you feel somebody's looking over your shoulder then purposely type in the wrong pin!

Hey being paranoid can be fun but it's even more fun to play with the paranoid person about their paranoid fears!

Don't worry if some folks might call you paranoid, I just say I am not paranoid, just cautious. After you have seen some folks that have had their identity stolen, you attitude changes a bit.

Clark

"nomad" wrote in news:SCPCf.5300$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net:

May I ask why? I always use my credit card in the grocery store except when the purchase price is under about $20. The clerks at the stores I frequent know me and hardly even bother asking "credit or debit?"

Interest isn't a factor to me. I always pay my creduit card bill in full every month. I haven't paid a dime in CC interest in 20 years.