Sometimes it's the little things...

I agree with you that Q should notify you when a memo is too long.

I suggest that receiving a check would mean that it is a payment and, as long as the name on the check matches the SSN, a short memo "2007 1040-AZ XXX-XX-XXXX" should be sufficient.

However, if the name and SSN do NOT match, such as when you are a trustee, then more info on the check is required.

Also, since a payment submission form is usually requested/required and cannot be sent with an on line check I never use an on line check for tax payments.

At this point what is extremely important is the memo field which gets printed on the check. It's my only way to passing along information. So I typed in there "Apply payment to 2007:140 SS# XXX-XX-XXXX". Quicken took each and every character without complaint.

However.... on the check it only printed "Apply payment to 2007:140 SS# XXX-". So I'm thinking that Arizona can't tell what SS# to apply this to (of course Arizona didn't bother to attempt to do anything save cash the check of course. They couldn't have called me or the bank up and asked "Hey what's this for?").

Now I ask you, honestly, wouldn't you think that the programmer in charge with this specified memo field should at least warn the user that the memo field will be truncated when printed on the check?!? I mean they know it's a check. They know how many characters occupy the memo field. They know how many characters can print out before truncation occurs. Why for the love of god do they not simply say "Hey that memo field is gonna get truncated"!!!

What an interesting discussion.

It seems to me that you and Andrew have forgotten that the check in question was going to be printed by the billpayer ... not by Quicken.

I just printed a "Quicken" check ... and every character in Andrew's memo printed.

The OFX specs say that a MEMO field can be 255 characters long. Quicken's memo field is around 64 characters long. Does anyone know what that means when the memo is being uploaded to the billpayer to be printed on the billpayer's check?

It seems unlikely that any billpayer is going to print 255 characters in a memo field on a check. How many characters do you think the billpayer is going to print in the memo field?

Can anyone say whether every billpayer will accept/print the same number of memo field characters? Can anyone say how a client application like Quicken knows how many characters a billpayer will accept/print in the memo field?

I have read several suggestions not to use online billpay for tax payments. But I don't think they should be considered absolute rules: after all, you can send a check, with no documentation, and it will be accepted, and generally correctly applied. I've done it.

The tax agencies I have sent money to generally recommend putting something like: "2007 1040 nnn-nn-nnnn" in the memo field (leaving out text like "apply payment to", etc.). A memo field that short would have gotten past the billpayer problem in this case.

I agree, but when you don't know (or just don't remember) how many characters show on the check...

And oh yes, BTW, there's tons of room on the check really. Why such a short limit anyway? Why not say 256 characters or something like that?

Many people "request" some payment submission form or whatever. These are not legally required. I don't let their request stop me from being able to do online banking. All my checks are online for the past like 12 years now. Even tax payments!!! Normally it works - 'cept when things like a short memo screw it up!

... that either piss you off or show you a lack of professionalism. Case in point. Just got a letter from the Arizona Department of Revenue saying there was an error in my taxes. Turns out they didn't seem to apply my tax payment. I sent it in as an online check.

At this point what is extremely important is the memo field which gets printed on the check. It's my only way to passing along information. So I typed in there "Apply payment to 2007:140 SS# XXX-XX-XXXX". Quicken took each and every character without complaint.

However.... on the check it only printed "Apply payment to 2007:140 SS# XXX-". So I'm thinking that Arizona can't tell what SS# to apply this to (of course Arizona didn't bother to attempt to do anything save cash the check of course. They couldn't have called me or the bank up and asked "Hey what's this for?").

Now I ask you, honestly, wouldn't you think that the programmer in charge with this specified memo field should at least warn the user that the memo field will be truncated when printed on the check?!? I mean they know it's a check. They know how many characters occupy the memo field. They know how many characters can print out before truncation occurs. Why for the love of god do they not simply say "Hey that memo field is gonna get truncated"!!!

-- Andrew DeFaria A common mistake people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools. - Douglas Adams

If you mean by Checkfree or whoevers handling that now-a-days, no I was aware of it. Point remains - if the characters are gonna be truncated then the user deserves to be warned!

I don't print checks. This is an online check. Sometimes online payments are done as EFTs - other times they'll cut a check. This is not my concern.

It means it's a crap shoot. Sometimes you'll get your memo - other times you won't! :-(

While it's nice that you can now have a 64 characters memo (it used to be shorter IIRC) and that the OFX spec is open to longer fields I still maintain if memo is too long to print on any check for any reason (IOW if there's a chance that this online payment might result in a printed check) then at least a warning is in order to inform the user that truncation will occur.

Well, again, my guess would be as many as I am allowed to type in without a warning. It's a reasonable expect ion IMNSHO.

Simple. Make it a minimum requirement - You must print at least X characters of the memo field - or at least make them report how much they support. BTW: how many billpayers are there now?

I'm sure I could devise a method. Hell a little table saying this bill payer prints X characters of memo would be sufficient. Yet another attribute of an OFX transaction...

I use online bill payment through Quicken with Wells Fargo now. My understanding was that Checkfree prints the checks if need be. Personally I don't care.

This is not a good enough excuse in my book. Why not use online bill pay for tax payments? They should (and guess what? Do!) accept online payments like anybody else.

I do it all the time. One time a municipal department refused my payment stating they needed the parking ticket stub or whatever. I told them 1) all my payments are done online and 2) I no longer have the ticket stub anyway. I sent my payment as an online payment again and told them - "You've been paid. This is a legal way to pay. If you don't want the money then that's your problem - not mine". After a couple of months they cashed the check.

But my whole point is that this should *not* be a problem to start with. Quicken should tell you if your memo is too long. That's the professional (i.e. non sloppy) way to do it.

I agree with you that Q should notify you when a memo is too long.

What an interesting discussion.

It seems to me that you and Andrew have forgotten that the check in question was going to be printed by the billpayer ... not by Quicken.

If you mean by Checkfree or whoevers handling that now-a-days, no I was aware of it. Point remains - if the characters are gonna be truncated then the user deserves to be warned!

I just printed a "Quicken" check ... and every character in Andrew's memo printed.

I don't print checks. This is an online check. Sometimes online payments are done as EFTs - other times they'll cut a check. This is not my concern.

The OFX specs say that a MEMO field can be 255 characters long. Quicken's memo field is around 64 characters long. Does anyone know what that means when the memo is being uploaded to the billpayer to be printed on the billpayer's check?

It means it's a crap shoot. Sometimes you'll get your memo - other times you won't! :-(

While it's nice that you can now have a 64 characters memo (it used to be shorter IIRC) and that the OFX spec is open to longer fields I still maintain if memo is too long to print on any check for any reason (IOW if there's a chance that this online payment might result in a printed check) then at least a warning is in order to inform the user that truncation will occur.

It seems unlikely that any billpayer is going to print 255 characters in a memo field on a check. How many characters do you think the billpayer is going to print in the memo field?

Well, again, my guess would be as many as I am allowed to type in without a warning. It's a reasonable expect ion IMNSHO.

Can anyone say whether every billpayer will accept/print the same number of memo field characters? Simple. Make it a minimum requirement - You must print at least X characters of the memo field - or at least make them report how much they support. BTW: how many billpayers are there now?

Can anyone say how a client application like Quicken knows how many characters a billpayer will accept/print in the memo field?

I'm sure I could devise a method. Hell a little table saying this bill payer prints X characters of memo would be sufficient. Yet another attribute of an OFX transaction...

I use online bill payment through Quicken with Wells Fargo now. My understanding was that Checkfree prints the checks if need be. Personally I don't care.

I suggest that receiving a check would mean that it is a payment and,as long as the name on the check matches the SSN, a short memo "2007 1040-AZ XXX-XX-XXXX" should be sufficient.

However, if the name and SSN do NOT match, such as when you are a trustee, then more info on the check is required.

Also, since a payment submission form is usually requested/required and cannot be sent with an on line check I never use an on line check for tax payments.

I have read several suggestions not to use online billpay for tax payments. This is not a good enough excuse in my book. Why not use online bill pay for tax payments? They should (and guess what? Do!) accept online payments like anybody else.

But I don't think they should be considered absolute rules: after all, you can send a check, with no documentation, and it will be accepted, and generally correctly applied. I've done it.

I do it all the time. One time a municipal department refused my payment stating they needed the parking ticket stub or whatever. I told them 1) all my payments are done online and 2) I no longer have the ticket stub anyway. I sent my payment as an online payment again and told them - "You've been paid. This is a legal way to pay. If you don't want the money then that's your problem - not mine". After a couple of months they cashed the check.

The tax agencies I have sent money to generally recommend putting something like: "2007 1040 nnn-nn-nnnn" in the memo field (leaving out text like "apply payment to", etc.). A memo field that short would have gotten past the billpayer problem in this case.

But my whole point is that this should not be a problem to start with. Quicken should tell you if your memo is too long. That's the professional (i.e. non sloppy) way to do it.

-- Andrew DeFaria I wake up every morning at nine and grab for the morning paper. Then I look at the obituary page. If my name is not on it, I get up. - Benjamin Franklin

Among other things, the number of characters printed may depend upon the font used; as it may be a space consideration, not a 'number of characters' consideration.

Yeah I know that. Are you asserting that such a thing makes the maximum number of characters that will appear unknowable? If not then what's your point? Who cares if 42 characters could be printed if they used a smaller font! They're using the font that they are using! Only 40 (or whatever the number is) can be printed. That's the limit!

And yes I've been using online bill payments for 12 years and on each occasion that I have needed to get a copy of the check the font was exactly the same!

Are you running a business that depends on this particular "not so humble opinion"?

So, after pretending that my post was just a bunch of random sentences having no relationship to one another (by providing "answers" to sentences, instead of to my point), you finally get to something that approaches the problem.

Let's just simplify a statement of the problem.

Suppose there is an agreement as to the "requirement" for Memo field length: it could be the OFX specs 256 character Memo field length, or any other mutually agreed upon length. Neither the requirement itself, nor its source, matter. Just say that everyone agrees about the maximum length of the check memo field.

How would the developer of a personal financial software product be able to tell you, when you entered your memo data, that some financial institution they were going to send the data to, would have a bug in THEIR program that was going to truncate your memo field?