I currently bank with the Nationwide and have done so for maybe 10 years. I have been very happy with their level of service.
I would terminate my business with them if i found that they were exporting call centre jobs to the far east/asia and in support of the workers in the UK,i think that those who use banks which have done this,should consider their position and think about moving to an institution which employs people in the UK and doesnt exploit cheap labour in other countries.
This could actually be a positive selling point for a bank/building society i.e we use UK call centres.
Not all call centres are crap and plenty of people have /have had good jobs there.
If all banks are using overseas call centres, what are we suppose to do? LOL Forget about comparing the quality of call centres between the UK and the Far East. The cost savings itself already justify the move.
British gov. should really tackle the cost factor. At the same time, provide tax incentives to companies which creates more jobs or provide value-added training courses in the UK.
Just had an even better idea,prompted by another posting . Why not employ directors ,executive and non executive ,and consultants from the far east/Asia?. It would certainly be cheaper and we all know about the strong work ethic of such cultures ?
Of course we cannot make decisions based purely on cost. But we cannot deny that cost isn't one of the major factors which prompt companies to relocate. One will be ignorant suggest otherwise.
No one suggest that we should create a low wage economy. Yet comparatively, the UK cannot sustain higher wage economy with lower productivity. With globalization, IMHO, there is just no way unless gov. intervention.
We are comparing cost of business. Work ethnics is another matter. In any case, what percentage of the work force made of directors ,executive and non executive ,and consultants?
I'm not advocating the move of call centres overseas, but analysing the facts and reasons why companies want to move. If you are a company director or executive and you know that the move of call centre will cut operating cost by few millions over few years. Otherwise the company will be in red by millions and banks may not provide a decent loan. What next? Struggle for few months? No profits. no loans. How is the company going to pay the rest of the employees? Subsequently, the company will face closure. So, do we save a few hundred jobs and sacrifice thousands of jobs couple of months time? Or lose few hundred jobs and save thousands of jobs? Hope you realise if the company close down, overseas companies with same/similar product will likely to take over the business. I think it's a case of whether you want to win the battle and lose the war or lose the battle but win the war.
In my previous post, I said, if we want to retain the ppl in call centres, the gov. really have to give incentives to companies to do so.
Wages are dictated to a great extent my market forces although sometimes there are interventions which ensure that some people are actually paid more than they are worth or less than they are worth. I am no advocate of the minimum wage. You are paid what you are worth.
A lot of these matters are in the hands of the customer and the public. My own values would not allow me to deal with a financial institution which openly admits to sacrificing jobs in the uk and exploiting others in asia. Others may see no problem with this.
The thing is ,if we accept this concept then where will it stop?.
You will no doubt be aware of the conspiracy theory that rampant immigration via the asylum seeker route to the UK is secretly permitted by the Government because the country needs a pool of cheap labour to exploit?.. We have a history of such practices ,i.e West Indians,Irish etc etc.
These things dont happen in isolation. The call centre worker whose job is lost is an extra cost to the taxpayer in benfits. He also does not have money to spend in the UK economy and therefor his loss of income is now a threat to others.. The foreign worker who has gained that job does have money to spend in his own economy. This leads to growth whilst we decline.
We cannot accept that profit is always the over riding factor.
What did they do before British Companies helped them out then?.
It is easy to turn a blind eye when it isnt happening to us but I'm sure there are quite a few categories of work which easily lend themselves to being exported abroad via the global telecoms network.
My company has its PC support based in India. Unfortunately most of my colleagues are just computer users by force (its a field office system) and they havent much of a clue about PC's. Further to this they often find it hard to understand the accents on the phone and understand even less the technospeak. The software is also produced in India. It too doesnt work very well.
The Indians are "helping out" British companies by reducing their bottom line rather dramatically. People are moaning about their jobs being sent overseas, but this has been happening for decades. Look around all the electronic equipment in your house, and notice how much of it is made in second world countries or "tiger economies".
30 years ago televisions and other equipment were so expensive that they had to be rented. Now they are so cheap that people buy a new one with an even bigger screen every two years. DVD players are now available for £30 at Richer Sounds. Computers, washing machines, hoovers, textiles - these things that we fill our houses up with in a way that was never possible before are all cheap because Western workers *aren't* being paid to make them.
Anything where you don't have to face a customer can be moved elsewhere. Of course, as with the banks, jobs were people *did* have to face customers were replaced with jobs were people did not, hence the wide scale branch closures etc.
If your bosses determine that even after the reduction in efficiency in your business caused by poorer PC support there is still overall a cheaper bottom line, then they'll keep contracting the stuff out.
I'm not sure what all the fuss is about - I don't ever remember having to
*call* my bank as I do everything via the web interface or by email if I have a query - why do people have to spend so much time *calling* their bank when almost all of them have a comprehensive web interface?
We are living in a globalised economy. Like you said, 'You are paid what you are worth'. Now, British companies do not just cater for the British economy. They produce goods and services for the rest of the world too. The world do not perceive British goods or services as cheap, hence not purchase UK goods/services. Does it mean the company will just cater for the UK economy? If a company don't cut cost or increase productivity, how else can a company increase competitiveness in the global market? Be realistic.
If a homogeneous good cost 20 to produce in the UK and cost 10 to produce in the Far East. Would you pay for 10 premium for the same good? Ok... assuming everyone in the UK are willing to pay the 10 premium. Will the rest of the world do the same?
If I'm not wrong, the new Rolls Royce is designed in the UK, but none of it's components are manufactured here. Why so? Surely, the UK house some of the best manufactures for these components. Unless these components are manufactured by skilled workers which no other countries can offer. Or these components can be manufactured in 1/2 the time compared to other countries. Then the chances for these Rolls Royce parts made in the UK are higher. This is why I said if the gov. give tax incentives to companies which add value to workers via training and technological advancement. This is a pro-growth incentive. A win-win strategy. This incentive is indirectly transfered/consumed by the workers permanently(enhanced knowledge) and not simply a handout to companies to reduce cost.
Global customers.
How is giving those poor in Asia the opportunity to work as exploiting them? Those ppl in the Far East working in the call centres are probably earning few times more than their traditional jobs. Hence improve standard of living.
This is a global phenomenon. This is not just a UK experience. Look at US. Or even newly industrialized countries like Hong Kong and Singapore. Their manufacturing sectors are suffering. Jobs moving from Hong Kong and Singapore to countries like Thailand and China. Basically everyone is moving up the scale. That is probably why Singapore is moving into biotechnology industry.
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Even US call centres are moving to India. These changes are everywhere mate. All in the name of globalization.
Ok. Are these immigrant allowed to work in these call centres? If yes, one can argue that they are replacing current workers. Does that help the situation? If no, what has changed?
Likewise, if a company cannot lower cost to compete with foreign competitors, how long will it able to survive? I agree with what you that we need ppl to spend in the UK, but if the company maintain the call centre and risk losing money, business and competitiveness, wouldn't it still have to reduce cost at the end of the day?
It's not about profits here. It's about survival! We need more entrepreneurs, inventors, innovators. Increase creativity and productivity. Harness new technologies to benefit the UK workers. Create jobs for the production of new products, new ideas.
Just the British companies helped them? What about the Japanese and Americans? What do you say about those Japanese car manufacturers who moved to the UK. Hasn't the Japanese given UK the opportunity to manufacture their cars?
Therefore training/knowledge enhancement. geez... sounds like some medicine.... oh.. 3 times a day :P
Personally I often find it much harder to understand the accents on our call centre in Glasgow than I do our call centre in Mumbai.
And the quality of people in India is - man for man - better than the British workers.
Low margin, low skill, low pay jobs have been moving out of the British economy for decades. From mining to ship building, from car manufacture to electronic goods assembly we have seen hundreds of thousands of jobs lost to countries with lower staff costs.
Better for British companies to employ people overseas than lose out to foreign companies and go bankrupt as they can't compete in the global market.
I have to say, I work for one of HBOS's subsidaries and work in a call centre dealing with Mortgages and It's possibly the best job I have ever had. The support and benefits are excellent.
I used to be a Retail Manager and that job was crap. More money but utter crap.
Just hope that other banks don't head overseas, it causes more trouble than it'sworth. I had to call one bank and their CC was in New Delhi and they have a system which has british news and weather and they try and localise themselves to where your calling from! Madness.
Indeed,i agree with you as i am the OP. Sadly some believe that your terms and conditions are a burden to the British economy and they want to put you on the dole and give your job to someone in Bangalore.
My issue is with them sacking existing staff and moving overseas. I have no problem with them opening _new_ centres and lines of business abroad, but replacing _existing_ workers to save money is not on. Again, I have no issue with them closing redundant branches, it's unfortunate but a fact of business, but to close one and reopen elsewhere is completely unloyal.
If that's how they treat their staff, how do you think they'll treat their customers? Unless you are a shareholder, you are worthless to them.
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