The big VAT lie from the Telegraph.

Yes, all comprehensive schools did that. Every single one of them.

It's frightening what classes have been cut since my day at a comprehensive:

Sports: cos the sports fields have been sold off for property redevelopment, using the pretence that sports encourage antisocial competitiveness.

Domestic Science (cooking): costs to much to maintain and use a fully fitted kitchen complex

The SI Metric system: introduced by Ted Heath, cancelled by Maggi T ( I've had many an argument with the semi literate that centilitres and centimetres aren't part of the SI system and shouldn't be used, although many manufacturers think otherwise)

Sex education: On the grounds it's best left to parents choice, meaning they get little to none.

Science: cos we don't do it anymore in the UK

and i'm sure many more, result? Near Feral teenagers roaming the streets exercising their civil rights to express their gov assisted under achieving who would starve to death if it wasn't for fast food shops to spend their benefits at

The Gov ought to buy out Burger King, and KFC it would directly recover much of it's outgoing benefits, and make a profit.

Steve Terry

God, there's no end to the exitement in your house, is there?

The vat will be correctly charged , the will just increase thier prices by the difference

"Andy Pandy" wrote

Are second hand goods really effectively VAT free, though? ...

For instance, if something had been bought brand new at

117.50 (100+VAT), then later sold second-hand at (say) half price, 58.75, then isn't the effect of VAT still there?

"Steve Terry" wrote

Are you suggesting that 'metre' isn't an SI base unit, or that 'centi' is not an SI prefix (or both) ?

"Bazzer Smith" wrote

That's rubbish, much food (mostly take-aways) is liable for VAT at 17.5% and many poor people seem obsessed with take-aways.

John.

"Tar Baby" wrote

Not an issue at all, the VAT reduction will just be absorbed by a greater profit margin. If someone wants an itemised VAT bill it will just show the VAT at 15% instead of 17.5%, but the end price is likely to remain unchanged.

John.

That depends on what you mean by "effectively". :-)

Not really. Where and what do you think the effect would be?

As I see it, the second hand price is determined by market forces. If the buyer is happy to pay £58.75, and the seller is prepared to accept that amount, then the sale will go ahead at that price.

VAT is simply a transaction tax on any sale from a registered seller to a non-registered buyer. Thus the original (brand new) sale price was also determined by market forces: The buyer was prepared to pay £117.50, and the seller was prepared to accept that amount, fully aware that £17.50 of that would go to the VATman (and some of the remaining £100 would go on other overheads, including other taxes).

Therefore VAT might have an effect on the brand new price, inasmuch as it introduces skew into the process which finds the balance point between what the buyer is prepared to pay and the seller to accept.

This does not happen in the second hand sale, although I suppose there could be an indirect effect: What is the 2nd-hand seller going to do with the proceeds of the sale? If he's going to go and buy other new stuff, and if VAT is going to determine how much bang he'll get for his buck, it might affect how much he's prepared to accept for the 2nd hand item.

In message , John Turner writes

But the local take away is unlikely to change all the menus in order to pass on the reduction, chances are prices will be the same and they will pocket a little more.

"Ronald Raygun" wrote

"Ronald Raygun" wrote

Well, 58.75 is 117.5% of 50, isn't it? ;-)

"Ronald Raygun" wrote

My suggestion is that the second-hand price will be related to the brand-new price, at a particular fraction of it - the fraction being set by market forces. That is because both the seller and the buyer will look at the alternative brand-new price (which, as VAT cannot be reclaimed by consumers, includes VAT to them) and base their decision against that.

Consider a day-old item, never used -- should it have a small discount off the VAT-inclusive price, or a small discount off the VAT-exclusive price?

Anyone who needs to be taught how to cook should be going to a special school, not a normal one.

A lot of stuff wil get into the second hand market VAT free I would imagine.

A proper (full) VAT invoice is available from any supermarket. Though the till operator may not know how to make the till print it!

No they are more likely to spent it, and spend it fast, they would probaly still be skint by the end of the week though but that is the fastest way to get the mone into the econemy. They would probably spend less on heating as they would be out shopping, as opposed to watching TV at home.

Funny how the Chancellor won't try the only solution

*guranteed* to work isn't it?

If he has gave 100 billion to the unemployed rather than the banks they would have spent it by now.

As in the 1930's depressions are caused by imbalances in wealth in the country, untill that is sorted out we won't get out of it, so get ready for World War III, which will end the world in the Year 2012.

Mark my words.

The clock is ticking........

That's rubbish very few poor people eat takeaway meals they can't afford to.

If you ever open a restaurant make sure you let us know, so that we can avoid it.

Idiot.

No problem, we don't let idiots in.