Warning to Ebay buyers re import charges

The same happened to me. I live in Asia, and very often when I order from the US with my UK credit card I get charged VAT. They seem to use the credit card billing address to determine where the customer is located.

Chris

"Chris Blunt" wrote

It's a good proxy, isn't it?

The question is, do they let you show otherwise if this is not true, and therefore not pay VAT...?

Surely what matters is where you permanently live, not where you happen to be located at the time you buy the product. If you have a card registered to a UK address, then that is where your PPR should be, and the presumption would be, just as in the case of hardware bought abroad which would be subject to VAT etc upon personal importation, that if you download software online into your laptop (say) while located in the US, that you would be carrying the laptop, and hence the software, back with you too, so would be importing it.

Of course not. If that were possible I would have done so.

Chris

I believe your location at the time of purchase is the determining factor when deciding whether VAT should be applied, but how do you define "permanent" anyway? I've lived in Asia for most of the last 25 years. Is that permanent enough?

The reason my UK credit card billing address is in the UK is because many credit card companies are reluctant to send replacement cards to some overseas countries because of the risk of them being intercepted in the mail.

Chris

If one makes a purchase overseas then the point at which the tax (and possible duties) in the home country becomes payable is when the goods are imported.

At the time of purchase the local taxation system should be prevailing. Then one returns home the purchase should be declared (and tax and duty paid) if necessary.

In my case there should have been nothing to pay as the item and the rest of the stuff I imported when I returned home was within my personal importation limit.

As it stands now the system is a bodge to catch as much tax as possible that would otherwise not be collected. This benefits the national governments and the vendors of competing products from within the EU. Stuff the consumer - they don't matter.

:) Chris.

No. Why should it. An exception being for things bought is a shop which has a 'tax free' scheme by which the VAT or whatever can be claimed back when a tourist/visitor leaves the country.

Why?

I don't live in the UK but still have cards and bank accounts registered there.

That is not a question for a seller in the US to ascertain.

In the EU it is a slightly different matter. I get knocked back for VAT when I buy books from Amazon UK and have them sent elsewhere in the EU... but then when ordering books from Amazon in France or Germany, the VAT is not levied.

Axel

wrote

VAT on *Books* ???!

The UK is one of the few places, if not the only one, that does not charge VAT (or other sales tax, on learning, ie books, magazines &c. The Europeans would like to bring us into line.

Correct.

However when books are ordered from Amazon UK for delivery in a different EU country, VAT is charged according to the rate of that country.

I worked out that I could have saved money by having them delivered to a UK address and then sent the goods book rate to Spain... but hardly worth the time and effort for a few quid.

It is interesting as I am contemplating buying an 16th century edition of some of the works of Cicero with some very interesting illustrations... about $1500 and I am negotiating about the price although local sales tax will no longer be added as long as I have it shipped to a different state.

Axel

wrote

Wouldn't they then be liable to Spanish VAT when they cross the border there?

In message , Tim writes

Doubt it as it would be simple movement of goods within the EU.

"Mike_B" wrote

But that's all that was happening when Amazon shipped the books from UK to Spain as well ... - "simple movement of goods within the EU".

What's the difference?

Bitstring , from the wonderful person Tim said

The difference is whether VAT has already been paid in one UK country (the one they were first sold into). Once VAT is paid (anywhere) movement across borders is OK. That includes 'paying' 0% VAT on books sold into the UK.

I take it the difference is that in that case the "place of supply" would be deemed to be Spain, and so Spanish rather than British VAT rate would apply.

As a test of this hypothesis I note that when I bought a book from amazon.de a couple of years ago, I was not charged VAT. If it should happen to be the case that Germany normally has a nonzero VAT rate on books (I don't know the answer to this), this would confirm my theory that place of supply for VAT purposes is where the customer is, not where the supplier is.

"Ronald Raygun" wrote

That adequately explains the "Amazon-UK sends book direct to Spain" scenario.

But the customer is *also* in Spain for the alternative scenario: "Amazon-UK sends book initially to an address in UK, then the customer has the book shipped out to Spain". So - why doesn't the customer then need to pay Spanish VAT when the book crosses the border to get to him?

After all, when you order stuff from the US to get to you in the UK, you are charged VAT when the item crosses the border...

"GSV Three Minds in a Can" wrote

But aren't books in the UK "VAT-Exempt", rather than "Zero-rated"? Therefore VAT has *not* been paid on them, not even at a 0% rate...

Bitstring , from the wonderful person Tim said

The US is not in Europe. European VAT rules do not apply (i.e. VAT is not deemed to have been paid already). Free trade across borders only applies within the EU.

Because in this case the customer is operating a "scam" by pretending to be in the UK and having the goods supplied to him there, or to a UK resident "friend". OK, in fact he may well have residences in the UK *and* Spain, so this need not be an *actual* scam.

Once the goods have been *supplied* in (or to) the UK, that's end-of-story as far as VAT is concerned (the exempt/zero-rated distinction is not an issue, VAT is levied on supply) and the goods, once supplied in any EU country (and the appropriate VAT there, if any, has been paid), then enjoy right of free movement anywhere within the EU.

Indeed, it's exactly the same. Some high-volume regular US suppliers of goods to the UK are required to register with HMCE and charge VAT directly to the customer (and remit to HMCE). Other suppliers are supposed to label parcels with goods value so that HMCE can levy the appropriate VAT at the border.

The only difference is that when you physically go there, buy stuff, and carry it home, you still get charged VAT once you bring it into the country, but that's because there's *no* "free movement" of goods which cross the EU border. But within the EU there is, and this means not only that you can carry the goods yourself, but also that you can mail them.