Setting up home drafting business?

wrote

Either way is going to work. I'd want to make sure that you had a customer (or two or three) on the line before you sink yourself into debt.

I have a few customers already

But need to buy some more powerful equip

Didn't know if Id lose out on tax deduction if I buy equip BEFORE getting tax number and business entity

Listen, every entrepreneur I know starts out in business buying "the best" and lives to regret it. Jettison ALL big company habits. The reason folks hire the small guy is he's cheaper. The rule is "Use, don't Buy". If your customer really wants you to have some equipment, let THEM buy it. If a Kinko's near you has a plotter, don't shell out for a plotter. Even an 11x7 inkjet is overpriced. And refilling ink cartridges yourself is twenty five times cheaper than buying a cartridge. Check out techagain.com, designjets.com, sciplus.com, and sourceforge.net. The EE CD from fivedollarsoftware.com has Intellicad 2000 which is compatible to AutoCad

2000. Promote yourself on elance.com. Always use your downtime to find more efficient ways of doing your work. How do I know these things? I advise startups.

- = - Vasos-Peter John Panagiotopoulos II, Columbia'81+, Bio$trategist BachMozart ReaganQuayle EvrytanoKastorian

---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Remorse begets zeal] [Windows is for Bimbos] [Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]

very very good advice!!

I will take your advice to hear

I've printed it up and will post on my fridge at home

So your advice is to get the "business" started..... NOT to BUY the business equipment. yes?

I wouldn't necessarily recommend buying the "top-of-the-line" equipment if you can do things on the cheap (or cheaper) and have it still look great. He suggested using a plotter at the local Kinkos - but there may be one just as good at your drafting supply / blueprint company that you can use as well. Then, you can also look around and buy used equipment. Anything you can do to get the job done (correctly) and save on the cash. I can assure you that the client doesn't care if you crash and burn, as long as they get their work first. So be mindful of your cash outlays and financial obligations as you build the business.

You've never done drafting have you?

Kinkos has some equipment but drafting stuff like plotters they don't have.

And refiling them voids the warranty on some printers.

Read the warranty carefully if it is still under warranty.

The bottom line: if you need a plotter/large size printer/ drafting software buy it. When you have a customer come over to your office and they don't even see a plotter, large ink jet they may think twice and go elsewhere.

Also if the customer sees you have fill it yourself ink supplies they may think "this guy isn't doing well" and take his business elsewhere.

I would point out several things.

1. When a customer goes into your shop/store/offce/etc. they want to see the latest equipment in an environment that says this guy is successful and can meet the customers needs. If the OP does what you suggest he'll drive away customers in droves becuase it will scream out this guy doesn't have enough money to run this operation. It screams out to the customer go elsewhere.
2. I'd stongly advise against buying stuff used. You don't know how many times the laptop was dropped, the laptop was thrown against a wall, etc. Also if it is used it is old, even what you buy today is oboslete the moment it left the factory. Also you may have comaptibilty issues. A printer/plotter/etc. that is used/coming off a lease/etc. may be too old to run with current software, current OSs, etc.
3. I would add be leary about buying stuff off lease. The stuff may have been mistreated, may have had damege inflicted on it. Did the customer knowing that the plotter, etc. was going to repossessed the next day trash it? Mis use it?

And that also tells the customer: after I buy the equipmnent, I'll just skip going to you bring the job inhouse. If they have to buy the equipment why not just go to the next step in hire someone in house to do the job with the EQUIPMENT YOU ALREADY BOUGHT.

"DW" wrote

Not always. And it can also say "Shit, this guy must be expensive!"

If that is a concern, you can meet them at their place, or, just explain to the client how you operate, and why you do it that way. They should appreciate that you want to earn their work and better yourself while being somewhat frugal.

If the competition is junking their $16,000 plotter for the latest and greatest, and they'll let you have it for a song, tune up the old windpipes and start singing. There is also, nothing wrong with buying what you can afford to get the job done. Frankly, not many clients even see the back room operations.

Obviously you have the equipment checked out first.

Another stellar reason to buy "new", eh?

Not always. Ask the dealer what he has taken in on trade. You can often get quality used equipment that carries a warrantee from that dealer.

It works like this. You need to get from Washington DC to California. You have a few options. Buy a ticket on a major carrier (and at that you can buy First Class, Business Class, Coach, or Economy), or you can charter a Gulfstream for $46,000 round trip, or buy a '71 Cessna for $57,500.....and won't the client be impressed to see you fly in on your own aircraft instead of deplaning from the ValueJet red-eye that just landed 45 minutes ago. You can stay at the Motel 3.2, or the Holiday Inn Express, or the Mariott or the Ritz, or better yet, take a weekly lease on a Malibu ocean front home for $5,000 for the week.

You need to be smart about how you spend your money.

Absolutely.

I know too many people who start up with notions of what they "have" to buy only never end up using.

It's easy because even though it's your money or your loan, it's a large chunk and all the little slices don't look so big at the beginning.. but they add up.. you have to discipline yourself..

even after your first revenue, be careful.. the temptation is too easy.. you tend to think there's more where that came from.. and then the slightest slipup gets you caught.. its remarkable how fast late fees and interest can cascade.. a thousand dollar overdraft on behalf of a client who hit a bump and couldn't pay ended up costing twenty thousand in penalties before put spilled milk back in bottle..

I think it was Arthur Rock in HBR88 who said most ventures fail because of lack of coordination between functions.. eg, sales sells something production can't produce on time, production spends a sale that hasn't been realised yet, r&d assumes production & sales are trivialities..

- = - Vasos-Peter John Panagiotopoulos II, Columbia'81+, Bio$trategist BachMozart ReaganQuayle EvrytanoKastorian

---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Remorse begets zeal] [Windows is for Bimbos] [Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]

Are you related to humperdink?

In by DW on 4 Mar 2006 12:09:25 -0800 we perused:

*+-Kinkos has some equipment but drafting stuff like plotters *+-they don't have.

They sure do.. except they use them for banners..

In "engineering neighborhoods" they have better support staff, though..

I know someone who shelled out for a plotter and then started selling banners to cover the cost..

*+-> And refilling ink cartridges yourself is twenty five *+-> times cheaper than buying a cartridge. *+-And refiling them voids the warranty on some printers.

If he's got brain enough to buy used, there is no warranty..

inkjet cartridge costs are ridiculous.. the ink cartridges are so expensive they should make the printers disposable..

*+-Also if the customer sees you have fill it yourself ink supplies *+-they may think "this guy isn't doing well" and take his business

You remind me of this criminal lawyer who I sent to a shipping lawyer for a mailing list so the criminal lawyer can run for judge. The criminal lawyer said that the shipping lawyer couldn't possibly make money because his office was too neat. I never stopped laughing.

When was young, used to wear my finiest to go networking. I became like flypaper. Every loser wasted my time. Then deliberately got cheap, and you'ld be surprised the quiet successes who started tapping on my shoulder.. think "value investing"..

- = - Vasos-Peter John Panagiotopoulos II, Columbia'81+, Bio$trategist BachMozart ReaganQuayle EvrytanoKastorian

---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Remorse begets zeal] [Windows is for Bimbos] [Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]

Exactly. Not only that, you can't trust spendthrifts. Their greed has no limit. It confirms their superficiality. It's the first sign of trouble. The guy who watches his money, watches your money.

I have had this rule of thumb on Wall St firms since 1985 that never proved me wrong. As soon as an investment bank moves into a new building, give them six months, and there will be layoffs. They end up getting their egos inflated and inevitably spend themselves into trouble.

- = - Vasos-Peter John Panagiotopoulos II, Columbia'81+, Bio$trategist BachMozart ReaganQuayle EvrytanoKastorian

---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Remorse begets zeal] [Windows is for Bimbos] [Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]

Understood

A little background one me:

I've been in mech and electrical drafting and design for over ten years now at company I work with

I use Autdesk Inventor for mechanical design which is a

3D application

Use plain AutoCAD for 2D design such as electrical schematics.

having said that I like your idea of using Intellicad over Autocad for the 2D stuff

But no real free cheap substitute on the 3D mechanical software such as an Inventor "clone"

Still...... I get your point abt being careful to not go out and buy "stuff"until you get the sales in. Point well taken there!

a former Compuserver!!

I loved CompuServe. Spent a LOT of money accessing it long distance back then!

Also love your web page and have book marked it. very insightful

Around here in a heavily Enginnering/high tech region our Kinkos don't have them.

In this engineering neighborhood the support staff at kinkos barely knows what day it is much less squat about plotters.

So what I know people in the sign business who bought plotters to make signs.

And you've got to really know computers/printers to buy used. You need to test them thoroughly before you agree to buy it. You don't know how many times that previous owner got angry and threw the laptop against a wall.

They are......printers are reaching the point where they commodities.

Heck I can get an inkjet color printer for $49 around here .

Remember when the customer goes into your store the first impression sticks. If you have printers and other equipment that is from many years ago they are going elsewhere for their business.

I would add that if you're an architect and the customers have equipment that was state of the art in the 80s the customer is going to go one step further and say this clown is probably woking under 80s building codes too and get out of their fast.

Frankly it's not so much the hardware costs that are high now days

hardware has gone down in price and UP in power by factors of ten

But the dang software costs and licensing is where the expenses is at

Costs abt $4k for Autodesk Inventor....and $1000 a year for the subscription for updates and new versions

Agree

But I do like the differing opinion here as it makes me "think"

THANKS guys!

Most likely the guy charges the going rate for the industry in your area.

So if the customer is paying the going rate they want someone who is using 2006 equipment to produce a 2006 product. Not 1982 equipment to produce a 1982 product.

Yeah you buy that $16,000 used plotter, by the time you retrofit the computers with Windows 3.11 on an old computer, SPEND YEARS HUNTING DOWN ANCIENT DRIVERS, you've spent so much time and money it would have been cheaper to buy a new plotter for $32,000.

You've never had to spend lots of time looking for drivers for equipment where the OEM has gone out of business, stopped supporting that hardware?

And yes just becuase you buy it used doesn't mean it will ever run under Windows XP. Heck there are printers that you can buy today that will never run under Windows XP.

And that warrantee is worthless if the dealer is out of business.

And if the customer picks you up at the airport he will see obviously that you flew in on Value Jet/Southwest/etc. in Economy.

Oh and if the customer asks for a phone number, it will be obvious when he calls that you're at Motel 6.