Intuit Payroll Problems

Here is some more sobering news. You don't have to give permission for someone to withdraw funds from your bank account with an ACH transaction. The thief only needs your name and account number.

Want the real sobering news? Even if it is outright fraud, your bank does not have to replace your funds. If you bank in the USA you agree to give your bank account to anyone who asks for it and there are no real protections in place to prevent fraud. And you worried about your credit card number on the internet.

Bullshit, that just isn't the case and does not deserve any further comment. What is real is the Lock Ness Monster, Bigfoot, Santa Claus and the ability of anyone on the internet to say anything no matter how absurd.

Allan, would you like a copy of the police report?

Bigfoot broke the law?

That's hard to believe, but true. Several months ago I started seeing ach debits showing up on one of the business checking accounts. I went to the bank and they reversed all the debits, but they kept on coming. I had to cancel the account

- all debits were reversed. People were paying their cell phone bills, cable and even their auto insurance with ach debits from my account. You would think it would be pretty simple to catch these criminal masterminds, but I don't know if the bank or the vendors pursued the matter. All I know is I didn't pay.

That's what I am talking about! If the consumer is not protected then all of today's modern advances in banking would be down the toilet. They simply would not exist.

Who in their right mind would ever consent of automatic withdrawals etc. if they had no protection for withdrawals that were not authorized. Only and idiot like some girls who live in CA would even suggest that this is not so.

>

CaliforniaGirl is exactly correct, and I don't care how much you guys claim it isn't true. Get your head out of the sand (or worse)!

Don't believe me? Think back to when you gave some institution the ability to withdraw money automatically from your bank account. Did you send anything to your bank giving them permission? No. All the institution needed was your account number and your bank routing number.

Take a close look at your bank statement for checks you have written recently and you will see, occasionally, ACH withdrawals in lieu of the check being returned. What happened here is that the institution that you gave a check did an ACH withdrawal directly and threw away the paper check. It's cheaper for them to do so. Did you give the bank permission for them to do this? No. The account number and routing number were on the check. THAT'S ALL THAT IS NEEDED!

And, if you are still skeptical, go to your bank and try to STOP ACH withdrawals from, say, an institution like your life insurance company who is making automatic withdrawals currently. You simply can't, short of closing the account and even then you may face liability (i.e., NSF charges) when an ACH request comes in.

Before this week I would have been skeptical too. I know of several people who TRIED to stop Intuit's faulty withdrawal (Intuit even suggested we do this). No one was successful.

If your head wasn't in the sand you would understand exactly what we are saying and how the girls from CA don't know shit from Shilola.

Yes. we understand fully what happens with ACH withdrawals, What we are saying is that if a withdrawal is made without approval either by error or fraud the consumer is not held liable. There may be some inconvience in correcting the situation but the consumer will be made whole again. Without this protection ACH withdrawals would either not exit or be severly restricted.

Don't be an ass. Use your head. Everyone that you have ever sent a check to has access to your checking accounting number and routing number. Anyone can have checks printed up with these numbers and use them. If you as a consumer were not protected from this sort of practice the banking industry would come to a crashing halt.

Once again, use your head, think!

Makes ya wonder, though. How hard would it be to get some sort of approval? I recall, long ago, needing to send vendors a voided check before a debit was authorized. I don't know if the dirtyrottenthieves were pursued. I hope so, but I doubt it.

We once had an employee who stole the checkbook of a handicapped resident. She even ordered pizza delivered to her house and paid with one of the stolen checks. Nothing ever came of it, despite our urging and the urging of a representative of the LA Attorney General's office. I think she should have gotten hard time.

Maybe crime DOES pay.

1 big item you are overlooking...

"but the consumer will be made whole again."

WHO will make this happen and from WHOM does the money come? Will your bank go to bat for you? Perhaps out of a courtesy but NOT out of legal obligation. Like Steve said, it was by the grace of the bank that you got your money back. My bank is saying to work out my problems with Intuit. I suppose that if I had a police report in hand they would do more but I am quite sure in saying that there isn't a legal obligation for them to do so beforehand... only out of customer courtesy. If you are sure that there is a legal obligation, then what are the specifics... i.e., $50 max liability on the consumer for theft like credit cards?! If you could pass that along then I would like to show all the banks in the area who have not done squat for any of my coworkers who were erroneously withdrawn this week. And we are not talking pennies here, we're talking 2 week paychecks.

Actually, there is some consumer protection against unauthorized withdrawals from your checking account but the rules are a little murky...

The rights are spelled out in what's known as "Reg-E," or the Federal Reserve Board's Regulation E. The Fed was authorized to draw up the regulation by the Electronic Funds Transfer Act of 1979. The regulation covers all manner of transfers into and out of bank accounts outside of paper checks, including the use of debit cards.

Unfortunately, people are still stung by unauthorized transfers for one simple reason... the money is gone which is unlike a credit card situation and so there is no guarantee that you won't be left holding the bag but you should eventually make out assuming the bank to which the money was transferred is still operational. And, if you are a business, you are NOT protected by Reg-E at all.

Allan:

Read that agreement you sign when you open your bank account. There is no protection afforded by law. It is the dirty secret of banking!

Just like Area 51?

This is hardly surprising. QuickBooks and Intuit in general have many problems. As for other software, I'd suggest you look at Newviews

Their new windows program is not only head and shoulders better than QuickBooks but also has a very reliable EFT ability. Their EFT mechanism allows you, the user, to send the eft information directly to the company's bank rather than Intuit's method of having them in control of both the company's and employee's money.

David Parfett Parfett Solutions.

Allan:

Just remember your own words when, not if, your bank account gets emptied and your bank won't put the money back because they don't have to by law.

No, Allan.

Use YOUR head. Consumers are protected from fraud with PRINTED checks only to the extent that the bank needs ID and a signature when cashed. But the ACH stuff... yeah, once you give permission for withdrawal you CANNOT change it.

You've been given real life examples.

--The problem the OP had with Intuit payroll was one. And did you LOOK at what the problem was? Not only had Intuit deducted the amount for the payroll from the account owned by the business... but then they reached their grubby fingers into the accounts owned by the EMPLOYEES. In other words, the permission the employees gave to have their paychecks DEPOSITED was used for WITHDRAWALS.

A personal example, I was creamed by the insurer for my business, whose automatic withdrawal was off by thousands of dollars (give them credit, they fedexed a check overnight... took my bank two days to clear it tho. In all cash was missing for about a week).

Missing money is not a minor issue for a small business. Whether it be two weeks of payroll, or a quarters worth of insurance payments. The transition from mailed or individually processed payments to automatically scheduled withdrawals is problematic for the consumer. The protections are on the bank side.

And, don't believe the ads about bankcards with CC protection. Once the money is gone from the account, IT IS GONE. You, the consumer, have to prove the bankcard Visa (or MC) was used fradualently. Unlike a CC, where you can 'freeze' the unauthorized charges until after the investigation, with a CC bankcard, the money stays gone until the bank is satisfied.

People on this newsgroup complain about paying $179 for Quickbooks. How many do you think will go for the $595 initial fee and $195 per year maintenance for Newviews?