MS SBA 2006 (beta review) & QuickBooks Pro 2005 (trial d/l)

Right. We are supposed to believe you really need an accounting program and are holding off until Microsoft's version 1.0 of their program comes out. As far as ADP's pricing why not give them a call. Do you think just because the data input is done from a Microsoft accounting program their price will be any different then it is today?

While you are researching this, check into Paycycle as another payroll alternative. It integrates nicely with QB and, IIRC, it maybe cheaper than ADP.

Follow-up:

Still have a lot more searching/reading to do but...

I have read a couple reviews of MS SBA 2006 and QBP 2005. One reviewer of SBA in PC Magazine mentioned that price had not been finalized yet as of

11/29/04. The reviewer also stated, "...employee records don't yet match the flexibility and detail offered by QuickBooks; in fact, you can't track standard payroll deductions, only timesheets." I hope this changes before final release! (but this is an old review, too)

Expanded research to include QBP 2003 -04, and -05 along with Microsoft's offering because I saw where a QBP user (Tara?) mentioned some features that were in QBP 2004 were removed in 2005, so I need to look into that further. Only running QBP 99, so I'm not familiar with a lot of the newer features yet.

BTW, if anyone is interested, Amazon.com has lowered their price for QBPro

2005 to $109.99 after $130.00 rebates ($100.00 from Intuit for upgraders and $30.00 from Intuit for purchasing from Amazon.com).

Careful as you go, Summer

Laura, thanks for reminding me! I forgot this item on my "research list". I have waaay too many lists going on right now. :o)

| > I downloaded the trial for QBPro 2005 yesterday. After looking it over for | > a | > few hours, | > was considering purchasing it. | >

| > Then this arrived in my mailbox this morning: | >

| > MS Small Business Accounting Review | >

| >

| > The screenshots of SBA caught my eye. I am now thinking about holding onto | > my money until September 2005 when the software is scheduled for release. | > I | > am curious to know how much the SBA package and the ADP payroll service | > will | > cost. Does anybody know this offhand? | >

| > Haven't done too much research into MS's SBA 2006 as I was focused on | > QBPro | > 2005. I intend to look at SBA more closely though. | | While you are researching this, check into Paycycle as another payroll | alternative. It integrates nicely with QB and, IIRC, it maybe cheaper than | ADP. |

As far as I can tell they didn't remove anything except, possibly, the ability to change fonts on printed checks. It *might* be a problem with my copy but I think QB is trying to force users into complying with general banking standards. I did mention that some things had been "messed with" or tweaked but not removed. Now I have definitely mentioned that crippled version that's made for Mac. It doesn't have many of the features that the same version for Windows does. Anyway, take my griping with a grain of salt because for the vast majority little changes won't make a difference. For people like me who power-tab through screens and tend to get very automated, paying little attention to the screen & all attention to the paper I'm entering, the slightest change causes me/us to have to alter our input behavior.

I was a beta tester for SBA from M$ and the payroll was the least appealing part of the system. There will be no manual payroll as in QB so if you don't do a subscription to ADP you're not doing payroll. I sent a lengthy dissertation to them regarding this and there was no reply.

Summer wrote:

Rather odd that they would go ahead and create a program with this limitation. How in the world will Microsoft ever become successful as a company if they don't meet the needs of their target end user for this product?

Allan:

You keep forgetting who the real customer is. It is the share owner of Microsoft. Every possible feature they can build in that has a recurring fee is the feature the real customer wants. I'm sure that ADP and Microsoft have a nice cushy revenue sharing agreement in place. Just like QB you'll have to buy an update to the program every year because the IRS will have changed some form it prints or some tax table will change.

Money, Money ....

| > Expanded research to include QBP 2003 -04, and -05 along with Microsoft's | > offering because I saw where a QBP user (Tara?) mentioned some features | > that | > were in QBP 2004 were removed in 2005, so I need to look into that | > further. | > Only running QBP 99, so I'm not familiar with a lot of the newer features | > yet. | | As far as I can tell they didn't remove anything except, possibly, the | ability to change fonts on printed checks. It *might* be a problem with my | copy but I think QB is trying to force users into complying with general | banking standards. I did mention that some things had been "messed with" or | tweaked but not removed. Now I have definitely mentioned that crippled | version that's made for Mac. It doesn't have many of the features that the | same version for Windows does. Anyway, take my griping with a grain of salt | because for the vast majority little changes won't make a difference. For | people like me who power-tab through screens and tend to get very automated, | paying little attention to the screen & all attention to the paper I'm | entering, the slightest change causes me/us to have to alter our input | behavior.| | -- | Tara

Thanks for the clarification, Tara.

My apologies for not remembering the post correctly and for not remembering if it was from you - I'm suffering from information overload again. :o)

The reviews I have seen so far of the beta version have been very superficial. (In my view, professional reviews in their nature tend to be superficial. They mostly just tot up bells and whistles of limited interest to most users, and even where there are plenty of user reviews available they assiduously avoid drawing anything from them.)

But I for one will wait for the user reviews. They are usually well worth reading - excluding the sycophants and iconoclasts - and tell you just what you want to know: the program either works well for the user or it doesn't.

Subject to this caveat, some interesting points have emerged. SBA not surprisingly integrates well with Word, Excel, Outlook, etc. It also lends itself particularly well to the development of add-ons by independents. And the user interface is intuitive like Windows generally.

It is that last point - the intuitive interface - that appeals to me. I get particularly frustrated by the inability in QB to even set default choices from a menu of options, or remember changes to the default QuickReport, much less having QB do it automatically for me. ("Intuit" was as much a misnomer as quite a bit of QB-speak in the program itself, such as "Retained Earnings" which are anything but earnings retained in the business.)

I don't use the payroll module in QB but it has to be the most criticised part of QB, mostly because of the two year sunset policy and therefore forced upgrades every two years. It's a pity to read that MS is making a mess of their one too.

One thing that strikes me about MS is their surprising nimbleness for such a behemoth. They have got listening to users' criticisms and wishes down to a tee. This, if nothing else, should give them an edge on QB who seem near deaf.

Anyway, the competition will bring a breath of fresh air into the rather stuffy small business accounting package market, which can only be in users' interests.

Ken

Its called capitalism and guess what, it works.

One thing that has apparently been removed in the latest versions is the ability to go into the emailtemplates file and make quite wide-ranging changes, eg in the fields. The templates have now been put with the other templates but afford less scope for making changes in them.

Few users would have been likely to have known how to make the more wide-ranging changes that were previously possible so it was right to put the templates with the other templates, but it is a pity that while taking one step forward Intuit also took two back.

Ken

Actually, it is an almost three year period - tho Intuit *WILL* spam email you early in the last year of the product's shelf-life. An early 'jump' to the newest version means additional income for them. In general, QB releases new versions in December, 'free' one-year tax tables expire in February of the following year, and products 'sunset' in April of the 3rd year of release. You get the most 'bang for your buck' if you purchase mid-January in the year your package sunsets. That gives the folks at Intuit a chance to fix the MAJOR bugs and programming errors in the new release, AND allows you the maximum use of the software before being FORCED to upgrade. Note: if you have a payroll subscription you must CANCEL IT in order to take advantage of the quote-unquote free included tax table. Otherwise, the friendly folks at Intuit will charge your CC for the subscription, regardless of your software upgrade. I lost my fourteen hundred dollar 'freebie' when I purchased my 2003 version because I failed to cancel the subscription, and there were no options or instructions on how to use the 'included' tax table if your were a current subscriber. I'm thinking next time I will just change the CC on record to a dummy number. That way, I can just stop downloading payroll updates after installation in order to use/keep the included tax table.

Intuit 'owns' the market at the moment. They are not deaf so much as suffering from selective hearing. Right now their marketing teams and bottom line speak loudest. That will change only when there are more options for the consumer.

I agree completely!

x-no-archive: yes

| But I for one will wait for the user reviews. They are usually well | worth reading - excluding the sycophants and iconoclasts - and tell you | just what you want to know: the program either works well for the user | or it doesn't. | | Subject to this caveat, some interesting points have emerged. SBA not | surprisingly integrates well with Word, Excel, Outlook, etc. It also | lends itself particularly well to the development of add-ons by | independents. And the user interface is intuitive like Windows | generally.

I agree. Depending on the software, I will research it for weeks/months before making a decision to purchase. I like to start with the professional reviews first (PC World magazine is my regular favorite so far), then read what the users have to say.

In this case, what I have read so far regarding "Office SBA" tells me it is not quite ready for "prime time". So, I'm a'stayin' with QBP and have ordered the 2005 upgrade. Hey, the price was right... I feel Office SBA needs to "cook" a bit longer before it's ready, but it certainly is a viable option for consideration in the future for the same reasons you mentioned: the intuitive interface and how well it integrates with Excel, Word and Outlook.

|Anyway, the competition will bring a breath of fresh air into the |rather stuffy small business accounting package market, which can only |be in users' interests.

I agree!

Thank you, Ken, "none", "L", Laura, and Tara for your informative feedback. You were all very helpful. Hope I didn't forget anyone...