Backups not limiting as selected

"Robert Ginn" wrote

Because you have chosen to give a unique name to each of your backup files ( by suffixing the date of the backup to the filename); virtually all of your backup files will have a unique name ... thus Quicken will have no way to know to "overwrite" any previous backup file.

This is poor programming on the part of Intuit. If there is an option to limit the number of backup files, then it should be trivial for Quicken to keep track of when each backup was created, and automatically delete the oldest backup when a new backup is written. The fact that the file names are unique should not be a burden to limiting the number of backup files.

I believe it does that already with the automatic backups (the ones it does without prompting you). What you're talking about are the backups that don't get done unless you click OK to the backup when prompted. These are the ones you're naming yourself. At least I'm pretty sure that's what you're talking about. I'm not necessarily defending the programming. I'm just trying to clear up some confusion.

"DP" wrote

You're correct; Quicken makes no attempt to control the number of user backups.

And it would not be a trivial exercise to try to do it. Backups may be moved. They may be copied. They may be renamed. All outside of Quicken. It would be virtually impossible for Quicken to keep track of them all and know which could be deleted.

The problem with the unique named backups is that they guarantee that no opportunity to "overwrite" the previous backup will occur. Frankly, I have yet to find a use for putting the date in the file name.

"DP" wrote in news:H3Gbg.22377$ snipped-for-privacy@bignews6.bellsouth.net:

It still keeps 5 automatic backups here. I also backup to a rewritable CD with the date-named filename. When the CD is nearly full, I copy the entire contents to my HD, do a quick reformat of the CD, and delete most of the older files from the copied files on the HD, and then recopy that directory back to the CD. A little more work but the CD filesystem is also not fragmented by simply deleting old files on the CD. I then delete the temporary directory used on the HD.

Hi, John.

To the OP: We've had many discussions of backups in this NG over the years. As DP points out, there's a big difference between the automatic backups that Quicken does without prompting and the ones that WE do when Quicken reminds us. There's also plenty of opportunity to misinterpret the Quicken Backup window. (As I was taught long ago about writing audit reports: It is important to write so that you can be understood. It is far more important to be sure than you cannot possibly be MISunderstood. And that is Intuit's sin here and other places in Quicken.)

For example, when we click Edit | Preferences | Quicken Program | Backup, we see a screen that looks pretty straightforward. It asks for just 2 numbers. But it is not immediately apparent that the two numbers refer to the two different backup strategies. The first number is for how often Quicken should remind us to backup to OUR choice of filename and location. The second number is how many backup sets Quicken should save automatically in \Quicken\Backup - using Quicken's choice of filename and location. And the final box (Warn before overwriting old files) applies only to our "manual" backups; it has no meaning for the automatic backups since Quicken has its own procedure for deleting the oldest set, then renaming the newer sets, and finally writing a new set.

This preferences screen is easy to understand, but it is far too easy to MISinterpret - and that is Intuit's fault! They've had many chances to correct it in successive versions, and they have not.

The Quicken Backup screen also is clear - IF you read it carefully. But a quick glance, guessing at what you THINK it might say, will get you into trouble. It's too easy to MISunderstand.

Box 1 asks for the SOURCE file, which is almost always the one you are currently working on and is already open in Quicken. This filename is already filled in, although you can browse to a different file or type in one of your choice. (This is ONLY for those rare occasions when you want to backup a file that you are NOT currently working on.) As usual in Quicken, only the *.QDF file is shown, but the entire fileSET (including *.QEL,

Box 2 asks for the DESTINATION of the backup fileset. Note that it does not ask for the file NAME, only the FOLDER where the backup will go. Also note that the contents of this box are persistent. That is, once you've told it to put THIS backup into D:\QBAK (for example), you should not have to enter the location again for successive backups, unless you decide to put the later backup in some other location - or to make multiple backups to multiple locations. Quicken will overwrite these with later backups, if you like, but it will not delete one. (The text under this box made a lot of sense when we were backing up weekly to floppy disks, and it still applies when we are using rewriteable CD/DVDs. But it doesn't apply to backups that always go to the same fallback location on our second HD, for example. And this is where the warning against overwriting previous backups would apply, if you choose to see the warning. A few versions ago, Quicken insisted on warning us every time, even when we unchecked the box in Preferences, but our complaints finally got them to fix that one.)

Quicken's strategy is good, if not always well-implemented. C:\Quicken\QDATA.* will always be up-to-the-minute. C:\Quicken\BACKUP\QDATA1.* will always be less than a week old, with QDATA2.* less than 2 weeks old, etc. And Quicken will remind you periodically to make further backups; these further backups can be - and should be - to some location(s) other than the hard drive that holds Quicken and the automatic backups. Even putting a backup on a different location on the same HD provides some protection against a file system glitch - but not much. Much better, if you have multiple HDs, is to put your backup on the second HD, so that death of your first HD does not take your manual backup along with your automatic ones. Even better is to use removable media that can be stored away from the computer. And, of course, there are many other strategies for more protection. But in previous discussions, we've kind of agreed that there can be such a thing as too many backups that simply waste space and invite confusion. Keep the automatics; keep at least one current manual backup; and keep archival backups of the last year-end or other milestone. And keep at least the milestones physically separated from your computer, in case of fire or other disaster.

RC

Many thanks to you all, and especially to John for the naming info and to RC for the above info --- that is exactly what I needed. The Preferences screen APPEARS to be easy to understand, but you don't understand it until someone tells you what the boxes refer to, which Quicken doesn't. Bob

Bullshit.

True, however in the vast majority of cases, backups will all be kept in the same directory. The code for "if there are more than X backups in this directory, delete the one with the oldest date stamp before writing a new one" isn't hugely complicated.

Agreed, but one might wonder why Intuit put that as an option in the program, combined with a "limit the number of backups" option.

As explained by another poster, the limit on the number of backups is on the automatic ones, which you have no control over the naming of. These are not the same backups as the ones that allow you to append the date to the name. I agree it is confusing and Quicken's options are confusing when you're configuring backup. I wonder if anyone has ever brought this to their attention on their website?

I disagree; you will have to provide proof of this.

Code that only works most of the time - even "the vast majority of" time - doesn't sound like code I would want in my applications.

I was not referring to the simple problem that you are trying to substitute for what I described; I was referring to the problem caused by the inability to insure that backups had not been moved, copied, or renamed ... compensating for that would not be trivial, it would in fact be nearly impossible.

There are much simpler methods for users to control the number of backups they keep without putting any additional code in Quicken.

More importantly, the entire subject has nothing to do with the op's problem.

Clearly you have a problem with comprehension. As we have explained, the limit on the number of Quicken backups has absolutely nothing to do with user-initiated backups - there is no option to limit those backups ... and user-initiated backups are the only ones that get dates added to their names.

I find this one of the most useful fairly recent additions to Quicken.

I like to take daily backups/checkpoints and keep them for a month or so in case something nasty happens to my DB and I don't know exactly when it occurred. Previously I had to manually create a new directory for the current date on my backup device and change the backup destination to point to it. Now it's just Ctl-B followed by Enter daily and a monthly excursion to thin out the old entries.

I also make daily backups (actually backups after every use of Quicken). I have a backup folder for every day of the week; and Quicken takes care of automatically backing up every 7 days. (I also have monthly backup folders). So I have every possible backup you have (with trivial effort) ... no date needed in the name of the backup file. Some folks tend to forget that Windows keeps track of the date that files were created ... never a problem knowing which file is the most current.

The benefit of the feature isn't keeping track of the backup date. It's allowing all backups to be stored in the same folder so that you never have to modify the backup destination in the Quicken Backup window (or even remember what day of the week it is).

I'm not questioning your backup method or anybody else's. Chacun a son gout. I just like being to be able to make my daily backups (actually I do it after every use like you do) with only 3 keystrokes.

In addition I wanted the guy who put in the feature to know that he has at least one satisfied customer.