Investment adjustments

[Qkn Dlx 09 on Vista Ultimate 32-bit]

Apologies in advance for following question, but I HAVE to ask.....

BACKGROUND: I download every weekend data for several investment accounts from FI. Also receive a summary report of account balances as of download date.

Because of security purchases or sales that have not completed as of download date, Qkn often reports that there is more or less money (market value) in the account than the balances in the FI summary. Eventually, of course, as sales/purchases close everything balances out correctly.

Example: Security A is purchased (100 shares at $10). Sale has not closed. Cash has not been reduced, but shares appear in the account so account balance is temporarily overstated.

To make Qkn temporarily match the summary report, I make "cash added" or "cash withdrawn" adjustments.

All I really get from this added work is the ability to have the FI weekend balances reported in Qkn. I am awakening to the realization that this "work" may be "make-work" and totally unnecessary, as my wife points out.

QUESTION: Does anyone bother to tweak accounts in this fashion?

If not, is there no uneasiness about constantly overstated/understated market value balances in Qkn?

THANKS!

Reply to
Al
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You'll get various answers to this one depending on how 'anal retentive' the poster is. I am very!!

Personally, for me, I hate when my Quicken records don't agree with the online statements (or month end's paper which is, gawd forbid, even worse!). I have a 'CASH' slush account that I temporarily move things into and out of when dealing with this sort of thing until life catches up.

Especially when you sell REAL securities and the date of closure is three days after your sale has really occurred!

So, like most things in Quicken, it depends on you, what you wish to do with it, and how much detail you really are willing to spend time in doing.

So, here's my question to you! When you take out a cash advance from an ATM to spend cash on candy, soda, newspapers, bus fares, lunch, library fines, church donations etc., do you record ALL those individual entries? Does that keep you up at night?

Reply to
Andrew

Do use cash-in/cash-out into/out-of same account (instead of slush cash fund). Don't detail individual cash expenses from ATM "allowance" withdrawal. Don't stay up at night because of it. ...BUT.... Great to know at least one other soul is tweaking Qkn to match FI on interim basis.

Thanks, Andrew.

AL .

Reply to
Al

Because THAT is how the stock market functions! Simply date stock market transactions for the LEGAL DATE, i.e. the DATE OF SETTLEMENT, not, I repeat NOT the actual date of the transaction. It's just THAT simple!

Reply to
Sharx35

Yes, true, the settlement date indeed is typically 3 days past the trade date; but the "problem" is that the actual SHARES come into and out of the Quicken account on the trade date, not the settlement date and gains and losses against that stock occur for you before the settlement date. Since it was a BUY or SELL, Quicken 'wants' the money somehow. Now, it is true one could leave the fictional 'iou' as a cash balance in the stock fund account itself, but again, it doesn't match the online records at that point.

So that's (again) what I use my slush fund for -- for a placeholder account until reality hits the books 3 days later when the real money flows into or out of linked sweep fund and I make adjusting entries = typically just changing the origin or destination of the funds to my money market account at settlement time.

(As strictly an fyi to any one who is following this,

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is a nice write-up on this).

Reply to
Andrew

Hi, Al.

You need BOTH dates.

The Trade Date goes on your tax return. This is when the SHARES changed hands.

The Settlement Date belongs on the broker's statement. This is when the DOLLARS changed hands.

Both dates are important. I usually record the transactions in Quicken as of the trade date, with a memo saying something like, "Trade Date 12/22/08; Settlement Date 12/26/08". And I usually try to time the transactions so that both dates are in the same year, just to avoid such questions. But, if I trade on 12/31/08 and settle in 09, I'll temporarily change the transaction date to the settlement date until I'm sure the broker's statement agrees with my Quicken account. Then, when the year-end is comfortably behind me, I change it back to the trade date. When I create my Capital Gains Report, I make sure the trade date is controlling. so that the reports are accurate for BOTH years.

I suppose, if I were finicky enough, I could create an "account within an account". When I record the sale on the trade date, I could debit ('scuse the accounting jargon) Cash Due From Broker, and then credit that same subaccount on the settlement date when the cash arrives in my account. But that's too much hassle for the minor technical benefit, which is only temporary (3 business days) anyhow, and wholly contained within the broker account.. (If I actually delivered the certificates and later received a check, I might go to that trouble, but when everything is handled with the broker account, it doesn't seem worth the effort.)

RC

Reply to
R. C. White

Both you guys obviously took your anal retentive pills this morning. I trade hundreds of thousands of dollars of shares a year on exchanges including NY, Toronto etc since 1993 and have never had the problems you talk about re conflicts between Quicken and brokerage data. My Quicken data always gives a fair portrayal of my assets at any point of time. Once again, you expect Mercedes results from a Yugo costing program.

Reply to
Sharx35

HERE IN CANADA, a trade has to SETTLE within the current tax year for it to have relevance for that year's tax return. In other words, up here you have to start a trade BEFORE Christmas Day for it to settle/be relevant to that same tax year. Period. Prime application would be calculation of REALIZED capital gains/losses.

Reply to
Sharx35

Anyone who would do this is a total, TOTAL whack job and is totally illiterate, accounting-wise. I'm in the tax prep business and have never HEARD such a pile of bullshit.

Reply to
Sharx35

Hi, Sharx35.

I'm not about to get into a SHOUTING match with you. I've seen many of your posts here and I know that you are much better at SHOUTING than I am.

But I stand by my original post. While I've been retired for well over a decade, I'm sure the U.S. Congress has not changed the language in the Internal Revenue Code, which has been there since at least the 1954 code and probably before. I do not claim to know the laws or rules in Canada.

I'm not familiar with the rules in Canada, but here in the USA, anybody can put a sign in his front yard and call himself a "Tax Expert". No education required. No exams required. No knowledge of either accounting theory or tax laws is required. But it is not so easy to become a CPA and to retain that license through 30 years of active practice.

RC

Reply to
R. C. White

Hi, R.C.

Yup, dates are important and shares appear and disappear on date traded. The settlement-date-delayed exchange of monies is what's keeping me making tweaks on weekends. I realize from all the discussion that I'll most likely continue tweaking, as no one has said "forget it, no big deal - in FI we trust".

Thanks for idea of memo regarding "trade date x, settlement y"

Reply to
Al

FWIW (perhaps not much!), I too continue to stand by the two-date entry. I double checked my last purchase records from December, and there was a number of shares of a security that I became the beneficial owner of on

12/10 but 'settled' on the payment on 12/14. I need TWO dates in my Q register, else Q is not in sync with the real world/FI downloaded records (which is what I tried to originally state as the first "replier" to the OP).

And to Sharkx35, I'll also go out on a limb here and comment that making a comment like "Anyone who would do this is a total, TOTAL whack job and is totally illiterate, accounting-wise." is totally out of line. R.C.'s posts are, IMNSHO, one of the most lucid and explanatory of all who post. There are others who post great replies and thoughts as well, of course, but R.C. stands out as one of the true gentlemen in this NG. Personally,. I'd offer up an apology - maybe you were just having a bad day?

Reply to
Andrew

I'm not belittling your qualifications, RC, but the BS that the OP uses to handle mundane stuff is just not need. I've posted thousands of trades in Quicken over the years and I would bet anyone that the reports that I generate are as accurate as those from the brokerage. About the only time that they are not, is when I have make an inputting error. It happens.

Reply to
Sharx35

The cash used for the BUYS and received for the SELLS comes from and goes to the CASH position WITHIN the investment account in many cases. Some people have it set up so that this cash comes from and goes to ANOTHER ACCOUNT. Naturally this would occur on the SETTLEMENT DATE. That's why it's called a settlement date. I use SETTLEMENT DATES in Quicken for all intents and purposes. CANADIAN tax law uses SETTLEMENT DATES for deciding WHICH tax year to allocate the resulting capital gains/losses in. This is utterly no need to post BOTH DATES to Quicken UNLESS one is OC (obsessive-compulsive) or AR (anal retentive).

Reply to
Sharx35

Well pardon me for having a portfolio value approaching a million bucks--Canadian, involving thousands of trades over the years. And pardon me, too, for having done THOUSANDS of tax returns, for pay, in my life. Also, pardon me for using Quicken since 1994. Reckon I know dick all about investments and income tax preparation. Yessireebob. No, I wasn't having a bad day--I just do NOT suffer fools gladly. Present company excluded, naturally.

Reply to
Sharx35

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