Recording transfers which take days to clear?

I'm trying to track transfers between two accounts, each with a different financial institution. The transfer takes a number of days to clear, typically three days.

Unusually, the receiving account dates the transfer from the day of request and the sending account dates it from the date of clearance. This means, for example, I can have a deposit show up dated 18th Jan in the receiving account, and have that money leave my account on 21st Jan in the sending account.

How can I record this? Using Transfer isn't working - I edit the date in one account and it's changed in both accounts. I'm using Quicken

2002 Deluxe & Business (UK version - was just about the last one) if that makes any difference.

Cheers, Ian

Reply to
Ian McCall
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I keep a separate account (called 'CASH') that I transfer the original into on day 'x', then on day 'x+3' I transfer the money into the the other account. Thus, each of the two "real"accounts has correct dates in and out.

Reply to
Andrew

The dates that are visible in Quicken account registers are "transaction" dates: the date the transaction occurs.

Unfortunately, financial institutions sometimes don't "know" the real-world transaction date (the bank doesn't store the date you put on your checks, for example), and they don't use transaction dates in downloaded transactions: they use "posting" (or "cleared") dates.

But you don't have to use posting dates as transaction dates.

A transfer transaction "occurs" on the date you initiate the transfer ... like a check "occurs" on the date you write the check. So, as you noticed, you can't have a different transaction date for each half of the transfer.

Quicken has the ability to store both transaction dates (for all accounts) and posting dates (for non-investment accounts - Quicken may store posting dates for investment account transactions, but they are not accessible by users).

When a transaction is downloaded it's date is used for both the "transaction" date (for "New" transactions) and the "posting" date (for "New" and "Match" transactions).

The Quicken posting date is normally invisible, but you can see it if you are interested. Right-click a transaction in a non-investment account register, then hold down CTRL and left-click "Copy transaction(s)".

Transfer transactions CAN have different posting dates. Quicken uses posting dates to determine whether a transaction belongs in a given reconcile.

If you download transactions, you should be able to see for yourself that, despite the fact that the two Quicken transactions (as in your example) have the same transaction date, they have a different date posted.

Reply to
John Pollard

Ian McCall wrote in news:70dnbsF15ivmU1 @mid.individual.net:

Look at the real world and what happens:

Banking institution A sends the request on date# 1. Some time later it is received by institution B, which waits over the weekend to act on it, then sends it (date 2). Eventually the actual "money" (whatever form that is) is received by institution A (on date# 3). The money is "on its way" between dates 2 and 3. You could consider it to be in a holding account (the "post office"). For you the dates of importance are the date the money leaves institution B and the date it arrives (date 3) at institution A.

I would use date 3 (the "date of clearance") as the transfer date (maybe with a note of the other date(s) in the memo field). Alternatively, use date 2 as the date the money is transfered to a "custodian" (a holding account, such as an asset account, acting as a dummy). Then on date 3 the money goes from the custodian to the final account.

Reply to
Han

Hi, Ian.

Who cares what the actual transfer date was?

No, I don't mean that as a smart-aleck question. I mean: To whom is this date important? Bank A doesn't care what you put into Quicken; it keeps its own records. Bank B doesn't care; its records are correct. The only person who cares is you.

Why do you care? Are you preparing a financial report as of a particular date during the transfer "limbo" period? Is an investor or lender or other interested party looking over your shoulder or at the report?

In the olden days, before there were electronic transfers, you might write a check on January 30 and mail it to your creditor on January 31. The payee might receive it on February 3 and deposit in his bank on February 4. By February 6 it might have made its way back to your bank, where it would "clear" and be marked "cancelled". Which of those dates would you record in Quicken? Which date would the payee use? How about the two banks?

My point is simply that each party to the transaction should properly record it as of the date that is meaningful to that party.

Since you didn't have to keep the books for Bank A or Bank B or for your creditor, the only date in your checkbook would have been the day you wrote the check and mailed it. If it did not show up on your January 31 bank statement, you would not have added it back to your checkbook balance, but would have listed it as a reconciling item, an "outstanding check". You might have been interested to note the dates stamped on the back of the cancelled check when you got it back, probably with your February bank statement. But you would not have tried to record any of those dates in your check register. The important date for your accounting was the date on which you sent that check.

I would use a similar method to record the transfers you are asking about. The only thing unusual is that you say the receiving bank gets the money before the sending bank sends it. So, for a day or two, you appear to have more money than you really do. But that just means that the transfer-in-transit is a reconciling item. The receiving bank has the money, so its balance is correct. The sending bank's balance is overstated by the in-transit item, which must be subtracted - just like an outstanding check. The sending bank doesn't know about the transfer yet - but you do, so you must show the reconciling item during the transit period.

If it were my books, I would record the transfer - in both bank account registers - on the date that the transfer is ordered, the date on which the transfer begins. From that point forward it is really just like a mailed check. You've set the wheels in motion (or the bank did as your agent) and the rest of the actions are just completing the process you started. Just like when you mail a check.

If you feel you must keep track of the in-transit deposit, then you can use a Suspense account, by whatever name. Andrew suggested "Cash", but I might call it "Transfers in Transit". Because the receiving bank records the transfer first, during the interim, this account would show a credit (liability) balance, which would be deducted from the sending bank balance for reporting purposes. RC

Reply to
R. C. White

I only said 'Cash' since I already have that account for other ATM withdrawals and such that I use as a 'slush' account. Maybe 'SLUSH' is a better name than either 'CASH' or 'TRANSFERS IN TRANSIT'? :-)

Reply to
Andrew

Ian McCall wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@mid.individual.net:

FWIW, Quicken 2009 allows a date change on the receiving account, sending account is unaffected.

Reply to
Justin Case

REALLY? How does THAT work? I tried a test case. While in ACCT A, I used the TRANSFER dialog to move some $$$ from ACCT A to ACCT B on a date. Went to the 'receiving' account (ACCT B), and changed the date. When I went back to ACCT A (the SENDING account), the date also changed as well. No where do I see how one can only 'change' the date of the sending account without changing the receiving account.

Can you explain how to do it? Would help me in the future I dare say.

Thanks!

Reply to
Andrew

The KEY date is the date of the transfer FROM the originating account. I'm waiting, too, to see how separate dates can be inserted in Quicken to represent the lag time between sending and RECORDING of the receipt of the funds. Sometimes, in Canada, there is a lag of WEEKS between when one RRSP is transferred from one company to the new financial institution. The old one really drags its ass, trying to hold onto the funds as long as possible.

Reply to
Sharx35

Ping ping Justin - u there? A couple of us would like to know how this is done?

Reply to
Andrew

"Andrew" wrote in news:49a5d1e2$0$20308$ snipped-for-privacy@cv.net:

Sorry, I was away from the computer.

I use the green flag note to indicate the clearing date at the receiving institution. I had assumed that the flagging was a 2009 thing and, misspoke about the way I keep a different date.

Reply to
Justin Case

Ah, ok Justin - no problem. Thanks for the update.

Reply to
Andrew

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