Zipingo in Quicken?

Andrew wrote:

Well perhaps not you, but some here seem to believe that.

I don't see it as that off base. Rating a service, to me, goes hand in hand with the decision to use, and therefore pay, a service.

I'm not as much worried about direct as opposed to useful.

And would there be something wrong with that?!? After all Intuit is in business to make money are they not?
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Andrew wrote:

So you think this despite the fact that there is no actual evidence to support the thought? Just some personal suspicion? What would make you think to contribute such a thought that you could not suport with evidence?
And what in the world would be wrong with Intuit doing what you suggest?
And what exactly does your suspicion amount to? Do you suspect that Intuit is doing something wrong? As in: trying to make a profit?
Please supply some evidence that makes your accusation credible. Please supply some evidence that shows there is something wrong with a company offering their customers a potential benefit - a benefit which the customers are totally free to avoid contributing to, or accepting the benefit from.
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John Pollard
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Oh, I don't know, the fact that it's in 4 different places strongly suggests that Intuit really, really, really wants you to "rate that payee". You have to turn off a setting for the "button" and you have to turn off a setting for the "link". However, you *can't* turn off the setting on the right click menu nor the one in the Online menu. I think most people living in the real world would consider that pretty convincing "evidence".

What would be wrong with the cable company advertising on the premium channels you pay for? Or the DVD industry peppering it's movies with commercials throughout?

I see, there's no "evidence" that they're profiteering, but if they are, it's OK? You really are blind.

If you think "Rate this payee" appearing in 4 different places is not about profit, please supply evidence that you have a drop of common sense.

You really should just stick to the "what's wrong with that?" strategy. When you ask for evidence *and* "what's wrong with that?", you appear flakey, like you're hedging your bets. But I'll address your point anyway:
Q: What's wrong with that?
A: It reveals a deficit in the integrity department.
Hark
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Harkhof wrote:

Evidence of what? Evidence of Intuit wanting to offer services in exchange for payment. Imagine that! Really, really wanting to offer services and have customers buy them is, after all, what businesses do you moron! The real question, which you didn't address, is what exactly is wrong with that?

Nothing. And if you hadn't noticed they are all doing exactly that! I always get a kick listening to radio stations, for example, that claim no commercials - *by advertising it!* Ah, duh. Excuse me but that's advertising. Advertising for others usually follows shortly thereafter. Premium channels do this too. And what's the real difference between say HBO (which I don't get) and say the Comedy Channel (which I do get)? I pay for the Comedy Channel yet it has ads. And if you hadn't noticed many DVDs have previews on them (which is also advertising).

Let's first prove the assumption before going further. Anybody can assume and allege anything. For example, I can assert that I see no evidence of you beating your wife but does that make it OK?

If there is any lack of common sense it is with those who think that companies should exist for the sole benefit of them. That's ludicrous! They exist to make profits - period. And there is nothing wrong with making profits.

Not at all. If the charge is that they are doing something then what exactly is wrong needs to be assessed.

Oh yes. being in business to turn a profit is a sure sign of a deficit in integrity! No it's just a sign of your deficit in integrity and intellect.
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Please post in a legible format if you wish to be read.
Thanks, Hark

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Harkhof wrote:

Geeze is there an echo in here or are you just an idiot!
You might look into getting some decent software if your having problems reading things.
--
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Ah, once again, the refuge of fools....

I suppose a simple press of 'enter' is more than you can manage. I understand. There are just those in this world who are unable to cope with the pressures of even the simplest of tasks. This can often be associative behavior, symptomatic of deeper issues. I refuse, however, to waste my time in the attempt to decipher what is more than likely drivel anyway. You say it's my software reader, yet I have very rarely run into this issue, Thunderbird poster or not. I suppose other Thunderbird users have somehow managed to acquire a clue, something you apparently experience difficulty with in many areas.
This has also been revealed by your "head in sand" approach to the long term lack of integrity exhibited by Intuit. I truly do happen to believe that Quicken & QB are the best financial software packages available. However, their marketing practices are not "just a good 'ole company tryin' to make a livin'", as you so dim wittingly declare. They have consistently shown a willingness to fleece their users. Dyed in the wool, die hard blind followers like yourself are unable to make the distinction between skilled software production and shady, self serving, screw the customer in any way they can" marketing practices. You, of course, are welcome to your opinion, as I am welcome to mine. However, name calling and insults merely because some see the reality for which you lack the commom sense to discern is another matter entirely. That sort of behavior cries out to be reprimanded. And so it is. Please slap your wrist now.
Hark
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Harkhof wrote:

No it's more like the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results...

Oh I do a lot more than just hit return...

Funny, I see your issues...

You mean like you're doing right now eh there buddy?

I've been posting this way for more than 10 years.

OK, not here comes the non-related association so you can grind your axe....

I declared no such thing.

Let me ask you a simple question: Do you have/use Quicken? If so then why since you seem to despise it so. Only a fool would do that. If not then I must ask why are you here in this Quicken group?

Really? Well common sense tells me you're a fool! You're either a fool who complains bitterly about something that he uses or a fool that spends his time in a newsgroup dedicated to software that he doesn't use? Which is it? Because either action is foolish by common sense standards.

Yeah, right. I'm rushing to do that right now (and hoping your holding your breath).
What an idiot!
(Then again any educated response to my posting here would have flushed out the fact that you're a liar to yourself since you claim my posts are unreadable, to read and respond would prove you own words wrong. And any response without really reading what I wrote would be dishonest at best - so I'm really looking forward to what happens next...)
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<illegible crap snipped unread>

Gee. Finally, something legible. Surprisingly, you've proven you actually do have the metal dexterity to press 'enter'. Quite impressive, really. And what an intellectual dynamo you turned out to be! And to think I would have missed it had you not finally succumbed to common sense!

Sorry, didn't read the rest of that mess, although I congratulate you on masterminding what could have been a really clever trap.

I'm quite pleased that you are at least making the attempt to define integrity, even if somewhat misguided.

Why? You're finally getting potty trained?
Hark
-- A fool will always expose himself by repeatedly fighting battles he cannot win.
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Harkhof wrote:

I see you decided to take the latter approach. Figures since your position is indefeasible and would require much more effort. So now we've exposed you for what you really are...
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We finally agree! My position is indeed Indefeasible! Perhaps there is hope for you after all.

Mastermind indeed...

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Harkhof wrote:

Argh! I hate it when I copy and paste the wrong word. I meant indefensible and you know it.

OK, I've had enough! Plonk!
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wrote:

Annoying current customers with unwanted distractions is not what successful businesses do.
I have no problem with intuit trying to leverage Quicken's popularity to go off in a new business direction. I do have a problem with Intuit not giving me the opt-out capability so that I can decide whether or not I want to participate.
But, frankly, I'd rather Intuit spend the development resources to make it easier to move back and forth between Quicken/Windows and Quicken/Mac.
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bjn wrote:

And oh, how I wish there was a Quicken/Linux....
Regards,
Margaret
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bjn wrote:

You'll never make 100% of any set of customers 100% happy. That's just the way it is. So what it comes down to is a matter of degree. You're saying this'll piss off way too many customers. I'm saying , based on the actual success of Intuit, which is undeniable, they're betting that it will make more happy than pissed off. And if enough people get pissed off they will remove it. I guess we can wait and see how this pans out over time. However I would not be making a bet based an a small but very vocal minority here in a newsgroup that I'd say 90-95% of Quicken customers have never even heard of.

When you purchase a new version of Quicken there are many new things included in it. Do you want opt out rights on each of those new bits of functionality?!? Name another product that does that?
There are, for example, many new things that say come into Windows Media Player or even Windows itself. Many new technologies are, for example, scheduled for Windows Vista. And many of them are also scheduled to be back fitted for Windows XP, via a patch. I assume you bitch about that too wanting opt out rights...

Everybody has their favorites list.
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wrote:

No, that's not what I said. But since you need something to argue against...

I did not say that I wanted opt-out rights for new features associated with Quicken's core functionality. Therefore I do not feel the need to name other products that have that ability.
You seem to enjoy misquoting people to create the counter-point for your agenda. That's a shame, because you otherwise seem like a reasonable person.
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bjn wrote:

That's called a logical inference. Now you have an opportunity to clarify what you did say and what you mean.... Hmmm... I see you neglected to.
Truth is successful companies annoy current customers all the time. Again, nobody can keep everybody 100% happy all the time - period. The trick is to annoy as few as possible while keeping as many of your current customers happy (or happy enough) and, the goal, attracting new customers. Whenever you have a successful product you're then in a position to improve it.
Let's take Corvettes for example. Every 10 years or so they change the design - radically. There is always a set of people who think the new vettes are terrible. They stick with there favorite class (C1, C2, C3, C4, C5 - I like the C4's - had 2 of them but I grown to like the C5's). Surely you're not suggesting that GM is not a successful business and that the radical changes in the design of the Corvette did not piss off current customers?!? (if you are then you either can't read a balance sheet or don't know Corvette owners. As an owner myself - in Corvette clubs - I can attested to the later). Alas what you are saying remains a mystery because again, you chose not to clarify your statement.
And that's an interesting phenomena in itself. Humans by and large don't like change (especially older humans). But often they warm up to the change over time. What's a company to do? They want to attract new customers but any change will be initially resisted by old customers. The answer is to do the best you can and introduce new functionality that is hopefully useful and that will be acceptable over time, ignore those who just like to bitch that it's different and attempt to attracted more new customers. I don't see Intuit doing anything differently than GM or any other company for that matter.

You certainly implied it. And there are many examples where your statement above doesn't fit. Over the years Intuit has added many things to Quicken such as linking to TurboTax, the whole Quicken Services junk (which I've never really investigated fully), easy upgrade from Quicken to Quicken Home and Business links, links for ordering checks and other supplies. All of these are examples of things Intuit has added that fit your criteria of "trying to leverage Quicken's popularity to go off in a new business direction" and had no "opt-out capability" save simply not selecting the links. This Zipingo thing is exactly the same as those. The only real difference here is that it was added as a patch instead of in a release where Quicken's major release number has changed.

Stop blaming me for your failures in communication! I have no control over that.
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John Pollard wrote:

John - oh come on - get real here - why else would they do this both on Q itself and in their latest electronic newsletter? Why else would they be pushing this onto us? Out of the goodness of their heart to become a better consumer?
I personally didn't even care that much, but it's obvious to me they're trying to make an additional buck (now or later); I'd don't begrudge them for that.
I said "I think". I didn't say "I know". One can't argue with a suspicion or a hunch. I didn't say it was for a fact. But then again, neither can you defend your position with logic that it isn't for that reason either, can you? Usually you're a logically individually, so let's just agree to disagree.
I don't intend to continue debating this one, my friend.
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Andrew wrote:

Andrew, did you actually read what I wrote? (I left them here for you and everyone to read). Or were you just looking to make a complaint? Your comment is incredibly ignorant - really ignorant.
I have avoided responding to some of your comments in the past because you present yourself as an "nice" guy ... but I am not going to put up with this any more.
What do you mean when you say "why else would they do this ...." Are you saying that Inutit is doing something illegal? Something immoral? Something unethical"? What in the hell does "Out of the goodness of their heart" mean. Intuit is not an altruistic organization; they are a corporation in business to make a profit.
I asked why would anyone object to Intuit (or any other company) trying to earn a profit. THAT IS THE ESSENCE OF MY COMMENT!
What in the world are you saying when you say "Why else would they do this ...". They are doing "this" because they want to make a profit, by helping their customers ... what the hell did you think? And what in the world is wrong with making a profit? And where did I state, or insinutate, anything any different.
Andrew, you are either a total moron or you have made a major misinterpretation of my words. I have been understanding before, but I will no longer stand aside and allow you to put words (and meanings) in my mouth.
And if you truely understood what I said, and you stand by your response, then you are absolutely not a "nice" guy.
--
John Pollard
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......
Andrew, I have agreed with your earlier posts (tho not necessarily the tone of them) that if users don't like Zipingo they should just turn it off and move on (i'm paraphrasing). However, I do have to disagree with your contention that this could in any way be "useful" to people who are looking to make wise financial decisions. Part of making a wise choice is using sound information. If the results of Zipingo ratings were a political poll, I wonder what the margin of error would be? Maybe something in the neighborhood of plus/minus 80 percent (and I'm probably low-balling here)? Consider the sample of people responding to Zipingo: It's the universe of quicken users who have a version modern enough to have included Zipingo. Of that group, you have to narrow it down to users who have not turned Zip off. And of that group, you have to narrow it down to people who bother to rate a payee while they're doing their bills. It's a small group; hardly representative. I certainly wouldn't be making wise decisions if I relied on what that group had to say.
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