Zipingo in Quicken?

How do you rate a payee without telling Zipingo/Intuit who you're rating? Well shucks, I guess that'd require uploading the payee name, which one might reasonably refer to as payee information.

Do you know this by some means other than "Intuit said it, I believe it, therefore it's true?" Unless you have some kind of access to the code and protocols that Quicken uses to transfer data, you really don't know what you're talking about. I've seen privacy agreements that read, in essence, "We won't sell your personal information unless it turns out we can make money by doing so." But hey, there's a privacy agreement, so everything's fine.

I trust Quicken with sensitive information, and the Zipingo garbage is an unwelcome and inappropriate surprise that's left me with the feeling my trust may be somehwat mis-placed. Sure, I download transactions and stock prices and whatnot, and even expect occasional program updates to fix bugs and things, but this Zipingo shit is unrelated to finances. It's purely cross-promotional. No different than a pop-up ad, really, only this one happens to be embedded in my financial software rather than my web browser.

Yeah. That's exactly what I said. Oh wait...were you trying to be funny?

mjw

And how do you know they are sending anything else?

And wow, they'll know I bought something at say Target and I thought they did a good job. Oh my god, the sky's gonna fall! I mean really, what wonderful determinations can they do with such critical, private information. I mean they'll be able to tell, in general, whether Target is doing a good or a bad job. Heaven forbid if such information would get out. Life as we know it would end! Really!

So then simply don't use it.What's the big deal? You can even turn it off.

There are perhaps 10's to 100's of new features that get added to Quicken. Do we all need your consent before they get into the program?

I wrote a few reviews for Zipingo. I enjoyed talking up a few small restaurants that I like. I also enjoyed explaining why a certain tire shop and locksmith must both be avoided like the plague.

Now I do my scribbling on Amazon.com instead. I think Amazon is even better. But Zipingo is still good.

This is the second post to this thread that makes this point. But you guys, I do not follow your logic. Just because a feature is added to Quicken does not mean you have to use it.

Microsoft sometimes adds features to Windows in service packs. Occasionally, features are added to Internet Explorer. Likewise for many other software packages that I use and (obsessively!) update. I suspect that you experience this too. Do you expect a notification for each added feature?

If you want to talk discourteous, consider the "Windows Genuine Advantage" verifier that Microsoft updated on Feb. 28. This is now required to run Windows Update. The Feb. 28 update is no longer uninstallable, nor can it be disabled in IE any more. What's worse, WGA is broken on many PCs in the field, including mine! Now THAT is worth complaining about. And many of us did, in microsoft.public.windowsupdate.

Who are you, Socrates? Do you always answer questions with questions? I was questioning a declarative statement, and mine wasn't even a rhetorical question. I'll go ahead and answer your question, though: I don't know that they are sending anything else, but the possibility bothers me. Of course, they could always have been sending anything; I download sensitive financial data every day with Quicken. But the cross-promotional bullshit has raised in my mind the specter that Intuit may be doing some data mining and consumer profiling with my information. Up until recently, I could believe they were just transferring data, but if you can rate payees, then that's proof that at some level, they're starting to do more than just transfer it, they want a peek. Maybe it's not detailed. Maybe it is just payee names and broad transaction value ranges. But it's still a look, and it wasn't necessarily a look before this occurred.

So it doesn't bug you. Great. I don't care. Use it if it makes you happy. Even if thirty more of your Intuit apologist buddies jump on your bandwagon with these ridiculous slippery-slope scenarios, I will continue to disagree with you. But that's okay. It won't kill us to disagree. I'm actually surprised at the number of folks on this thread who appear to be personally offended by me not liking this Zipingo integration. Are you all Intuit developers or something?

ff

Actually Fritz, check the archives for a POST I made on Aug 24 2005 questioning it...I said back then " As I've mentioned in the past, I just "don't get" this. This seems very strange to be incorporated into Quicken - what the hell has this got to do with actually MANAGING your finances? The only part of this I understand is that you happen to have a vendor's name sitting in front of you on a register that makes it very easy to 'click' on something to get the rating service behind it. But I don't like it and don't think it's particularly appropriate. But, I assume Intuit is somehow making money on this whole thing. "

I've lived with these little icons for a couple of years until just reading in this thread about the ability to turn it off which I did (thanks to whoever posted the pointer on how to do so).

But this is just one of life's little hassles. There's other more important things to reallty get your hackles up. Why is it, when we come up with a contencious issue about some feature of Q, these threads turn real personal real fast? Let's all take a chillpill here....

Listen if you don't have an answer just say so. BTW I wasn't answering any question - I was asking a question. Get it straight!

Geeze it's about time!

Just as I thought.

So then you're paranoia. I see...

Exactly. They didn't need to install this Zipingo thing at all.

Why? Why do you see it as anything other than what on the surface it appears - a means of rating payees? Why do you think that any more data is sent than that which is asked for? What is your reasoning for ascribing malintent to this (Aside from paranoia and spreading FUD that is...)? Since you are the one making the charge above and beyond that which we can see it is you who should provide reasoned arguments to support this.

I said reasoned arguments. They are asking your opinion. You are free to provide it or not.

Maybe?!? No definitely it's not details (save from any details you give in the comment section).

You have not shown it to be anything else.

And it isn't necessarily a look now - unless you choose to participate.

So it bothers you. Great. I don't care either!

Don't use it if it makes you paranoid.

IOW, closed mind. I see.

We're not offended by you - we just think your paranoid and attempting to spread FUD.

No, what I am is pretty clearly shown at my website, which you would have known had you bothered to look. I'm a software consulting working on Clearcase/Unix and Windows administration.

And it has very little to do with "siding with Intuit" or anything like that. It's just plain common sense and not being a paranoid person (actually I pity you fools, life must be tough always thinking people are out to get you) and not attempting to read malintent into everything that comes out just because you don't understand how or why it operates.

To me part of Quicken is helping you make wise financial decisions. As such, when you're looking for a business to perform a service for you and you are about spend some money, I would think that having a way to look up a vendor or a local business and get a rating of how good or bad they are would be something that people would find useful. I find Quicken people often very concerned about their money by definition and usually quite vocal about whether or not they spent it wisely or got good value. As such I would think that zipingo.com would be considered a plus not a negative. But there are those who see everything as evil I guess...

Why? Perhaps this is the question you should ask Intuit, rather than jumping on the backs of those who have lost confidence in them. After all, shouldn't positive public perception be at the top of the priority list of any corporate entity? Yet Intuit has a consistent and perpetual history of customer alienation and an apparent unwillingness to address it.

And not only that, they also have persistently shown a willingness to profit via practices of adware in software that has already been purchased. Turned on by default. And one must unintuitively by design drill down into the menuing system to turn it off. It's like paying for premium movie channels and having to put up with commercials unless you find out how to turn them off. I bet you'd object to *that*. If Intuit really want's to change the negative public perception, they could start by excluding adware from their products and instead, send ad emails to those who consent.

Intuit seems to believe that they have reached the point where they no longer have to worry about those pesky customer relation issues. Their software will sell anyway. And they are right, to a point. But this is a dangerous game, the kind that always backfires. Not today, perhaps not tomorrow, but if Intuit continues as they are, they will pay the price. To some extent, they already are. They either just don't know it or just don't care. I'm inclined to believe the latter.

Since I first started perusing this group (just a week or two), it has become clear that the 'regulars' here can't tolerate any negative feedback where Intuit is concerned. The result is typically, as your response so aptly demonstrates, combative and insulting. I find this difficult to understand. One would think that Intuit 'groupies' would want Intuit to be the 'best Intuit Intuit could be' (heh!). Yet the prevailing attitude seems to be one of 'seek and destroy' all who would oppose the 'mighty king'. This is a somewhat childish and self defeating attitude. Given your obvious (and perhaps not altogether healthy) esteem for Intuit, why not, rather than expending energy defending the indefensible, spend some time helping Intuit to see the error of their ways. After all, their software *is* the best out there.

If you, one of their bigger 'fans', could help them understand that their customer realational practices and propensity toward tenaciously squeezing every dime out of every poor sap who uses their software is counter productive and likely to decrease the time they spend atop the 'financial software throne' (a simple concept, really), perhaps things could change.

Obviously, Intuit has serious problems with public perception. . And let's not forget about the Turbo Tax fiasco a few years back. Given that Intuit has consistently demonstrated its willingness to take the 'low road', it is indeed baffling that the term 'paranoid' is applied to the dissenting in this group. Perhaps their *is* a mental malady pervading this group, but it isn't paranoia. You know, sheep and cliffs?

As has been said: "It's not paranoia if 'they' really *are* out to get you". It hardly takes a genius to recognize a given entity's propensity to operate outside the confines of integrity. It's not a paranoia issue, it's a trust issue. Perhaps your 'understanding' might lend itself to *that*.

As a final note, I do wish you would reconsider your posting practices. It is quite tedious and annoying to read your responses when you insist on nestling your responses undistinguished amongst previous comments. Quote marks aside, a simple press or two of enter before and after your response will do wonders for legibility.

Hark

"Harkhof" wrote

(snip)

(snip)

Consistent? They haven't alienated me. And if they had alienated you, why are you spending time in a Quicken NG?

Do you really think that Intuit would explain to me why these people have lost confidence in them? I've always thought that when you seek an answer to a question you should directly ask the person themselves. I'm not jumping on anybody's back - they are making what appears to be unfounded accusations. I'm merely asking why do they make them. I don't think Intuit would help answer that question.

Perhaps, that's not the issue here however.

Maybe the alienated customer should clarify why they are alienated? But from what I can see so far from their answers they are just paranoid.

If I were a stockholder of Intuit (used to be, am no longer) I would applaud any "willingness to profit".

There are many other companies that do such things. It's called making a profit. You're free to participate or not. Hell you're free to buy and use Quicken or not. Again, that's not the issue. The issue was the charge of being spyware and one of malintent. So far nobody has rationally justified such claims - that's all I'm saying.

Object? Sure I would. Saying that they are infecting my TV with spyware... ah... well... no I wouldn't say that.

We'd need to take an accurate accounting of exactly how large that negative public perception is as well as how much it's hurting sales. From what I can see neither are of great concern (AKA "People bitch all the time, but continue to buy").

If it's not effecting their ability to turn a good profit for the investors then yes, they don't.

Do you know how long I've been hearing that same claim? Since probably around '92. Gee, 14 years of it, and they still exist. Must be doing something right.

Well that's a negative perception with a good measure of "they must be jerks" thrown in with no real evidence to support that. Why couldn't it be something like, "They've taken polls and found that a sizable majority of their customers and potential customers actually like their software". I mean if we had sales and other such statistics to go by, you know that real data thing, all indications are that that is much more likely what's really going on here...

Ah, so you're a n00bie eh?

It's not a question of negative feedback or not. As an "oldie" (been here back in the early 90's, ran the Unofficial Quicken Web Page for years, beta tester of several versions and run a Wiki on Quicken) I've had more than my fair share of arguments with Intuit and have even managed to penetrate the corporate front and get inside on occasion. No I don't like 100% of what Intuit does and does with Quicken. That's not the issue I'm discussing here. It's the "oh this must be spyware", "this is another evil plot by corp Intuit", etc. FUD that flys about. This is not spyware. Evil intent is not present. Could it be abused? Sure I guess it could. But it much more likely that Intuit is honestly trying to provide a service of value to it's customers. Why do many people fly off the deep end ascribing ill intent to things they don't understand with little to no proof or evidence of such? I guess it's just that many people enjoy a conspiracy...

Why thank you! :-[

OK, so then here's a clue - I'm far from an Intuit groupie. Perhaps that's where your assumptions screwed up.

Please don't give my your feelings as if they are fact. If you want to debate facts then find. But I'm not gonna argue about your feelings - they are your problem, not mine.

Damn you sound like a broken record. I was merely saying that I don't see this as spyware, rather it's another attempt (as ill gotten as you may wish to view it) to offer value and attract customers.

Wouldn't that require that I first agree with your opinion that is it wrong to start with. I don't.

Aye, and there's the rub.

I'm sorry. You obviously are misreading me here. I don't have a problem with this Zipingo thing - you do!

It's not as obvious as you seem to think. In any event people keep buying the software so they must be doing something right. I applaud them for that.

Why is this relevant?

Huh? If you have something to offer as to why you think this zipingo thing is spyware then have at it. But you're really going off topic here...

Fine. Then prove that's the case and you'd have a point.

Again, I don't give a rat's ass that Intuit, or anybody else for that matter, knows I went to Albertsons to buy food. As such it's not a trust issue - there's nothing to trust or distrust (unless, of course, your paranoid).

Shall I say that I too consider your posting practices tedious and annoying? I don't complain about your posting practices. Shut up about mine then.

Name one useful feature that was added by the update process automatically. How much are they paying you to name this a 'feature'? You turned it off so it can't be too useful to you.

Please repost in a legible format, unless you have no wish to be read...

Thanks, Hark

I didn't say only "by the update process" now did I.

$0.

Ah, you're wrong. I didn't turn it off - so you're wrong.

It was legible (and standard I might add). Sorry you have crappy reading software.

Oh, looky here:

X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180

:-D

Just as aside, Zipingo is the lead article in this month's (March) Intuit's MoneyMatters electronic newsletter that I just received today (3/3/2006).

Heh! It *couldn't* be you....

-- Self Examination...an apparently lost art.

I hope I didn't give the impression I thought it was "evil"! I wouldn't go THAT far.

I do appreciate your point of view concerning usefulness; I know that I go to rating websites when I look for cruises that we like to go on occasionally. It's just that I find such a direct linkage to a rating service in Q's registers a little strange....a lot of things could be added that take up screen real estate, and sooner or later, it just becomes overkill and doesn't direclty apply to finances.

Hey, I don't even mind the Q's advertisements really! I think I said that once; I find those little items somewhat useful and at least interesting. But those, to me, see a little more direct than a payee rating service.

I still think that Intuit is getting some kind of kickback (or is trying to bring Zipingo to critical mass to start charging for it if they own it, or co-market with it.)