I mailed it certified...

The IRS has sent me a letter *by certified mail* telling me that I didn't file my claim for refund by the end of the 3-year and 6-month period, and that they therefore can't allow the claim. Well, I mailed my claim by certified mail, too, and the date on the Certified Mail Receipt is October 15th, which I figure is the last day to mail my claim. It was an original 2010 Form 1040 and an automatic extension was granted back in 2011. What else could they possibly ask me to provide in order for me to establish that my claim was filed (actually, mailed by U.S.P.S.) on the fifteenth, and that they should therefore honor my claim and send me *my* money back.

Reply to
lotax
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You may be out of luck. The statute of limitations is three years from the due date of the return if filed by the original due date. If an extension was granted on the original return, the statute of limitations expires three years from the date the return was filed, not the extended due date.

See the instructions to Form 1040X. I haven't looked at the regs which would be more definitive, but I suspect the regs support this position.

Ira Smilovitz

Reply to
ira smilovitz

If you mailed on the 15th, they obviously received it after the 15th. Having received it after the 15th, they do not know when it was mailed. Your certified mail receipt should show when it was posted and the return receipt should show when it was delivered. That is all you need to show the IRS you met the the 3 year from due date statute.

The above assumes you actually filed for the 6 month extension to Oct. 15th.

Reply to
Alan

This reply is incorrect given the set of facts (original return that had a 6 month extension). Please see my reply.

Reply to
Alan

The OP didn't say when he filed the original return within the extension period. I agree with Ira that if he filed the original prior to the Oct 15th extended due date, that would start the clock on his 3 year RSED.

Here's an excerpt from and a link to an on point discussion with cites:

"Returns on Extension: If the taxpayer files a proper extension to October 15th, for example, and the taxpayer files a return on or before October 15, then the refund claim and assessment statute is controlled by the actual filing date, i.e. the date the IRS receives the return, and not controlled by the extension date. For example, if the taxpayer is on an October 15 extension and mails the return on August 30 and the IRS receives the taxpayer?s return on September 3, then the three period of limitations begins to run on September 3 and not on October 15. Note how easy it would be to make the mistake of thinking that you had until October 15 to file your claim for refund. If you made this mistake, you would have lots of company."

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I'd order a transcript to verify the extension and to determine the date of filing and the date of claim.

Reply to
paultry

The IRS knows when you mailed it by the postmark (unless it is illegible). I stand by my response.

Ira Smilovitz

Reply to
ira smilovitz

The OP stated that he filed an original return for 2010 and that the date he mailed it per his certified mail receipt, was 10/15/(i assume

2014). A 2010 return with a 6 month extension (the OP stated he obtained the extension) was due by 10/15/11. Add 3 years to that date to get to 10/15/14. The OP has met the requirement for a timely filed return as he has a receipt from the USPS stating they took possession on 10/15/14. Any date imprinted on the envelope is irrelevant.

I don't understand everyone else's confusion on this.

Reply to
Alan

Thank you, Alan. I guess that my statement in the OP "It was an original 2010 Form 1040 and an automatic extension was granted back in 2011" wasn't totally absolutely completely unambiguously clear to some readers.

Reply to
lotax

Nowhere in the OP does it say the original return was mailed on 10/15/11, o

Reply to
ira smilovitz

Sorry, reply sent before finished.

Nowhere in the OP does it say the original return was mailed on 10/15/11, only that an extension had been granted. If the return was filed after 4/15/11 but before 10/15/11, the three year statute began on the date the return was filed, not 10/15/11.

Ira Smilovitz

Reply to
ira smilovitz

Ira: You need to read the OP carefully as well as Lotax's last reply. The 2010 ORIGINAL return was not mailed to the IRS until 10/15/14, the last day available under the statute of limitation.

Reply to
Alan

He said his claim for refund was mailed on 10/15 - did not specify the year. Is that the same as saying his return was filed on

10/15/14?
Reply to
Stuart A. Bronstein

If the 10/15/14 submission was the original 2010 return (I assumed it was an amended return), it would still be outside of the statute of limitations.

Section 6511 sets the time limit for a claim for refund to the latter of "...3 years from the time the return *was filed* or 2 years from the time the tax was paid..." (emphasis added). Assuming there were no additional 2010 tax payments after 4/15/2011, the statute of limitations based on the date the tax was paid would expire on 4/15/2013. The statute of limitations based on three years from the filing date of the tax return never started because a return hadn't been filed.

The correct procedure would have been to file any return as of 10/15/2011 if an automatic extension had been requested, and then submit an amended return by 10/15/2014. I often do this with clients who are extreme procrastinators, filing a return based solely on the IRS-submitted third party documents (W-2, 1099, etc.) followed by an amended return including adjustments, deductions, credits, etc.

Ira Smilovitz

Reply to
ira smilovitz

on what date did you file your 2010 tax return?

Reply to
taxed and spent

I understand that 6511(a) sets the period to two years from date paid if NO RETURN was filed. However, it was my understanding that 6511(c) trumped that and extended the time back to the 3 years plus the 6 month extension. Here is that section:

(1) Time for fil (4) Extension by agreement (A) In general Where, before the expiration of the time prescribed in this section for the assessment of any tax imposed by this title, except the estate tax provided in chapter 11, both the Secretary and the taxpayer have consented in writing to its assessment after such time, the tax may be assessed at any time prior to the expiration of the period agreed upon. The period so agreed upon may be extended by subsequent agreements in writing made before the expiration of the period previously agreed upon.

It was my understanding (maybe I am wrong) that obtaining a 6 month extension to file is also a 6 month extension to assess tax by agreement and conforms to 6501(c)(4).

Reply to
Alan

taxed and spent has asked "on what date did you file your 2010 tax return?"

The only return that I filed for 2010 was the original return that I mailed, as described in the OP, on October 15, 2014. That return included my claim - or maybe it *was* my claim, the exact description eludes me - for the refund of the overpayment shown on that return, the one and only, and original, return for 2010.

That's the refund that the IRS is now telling me that they can't allow because my claim was filed late. Their explanation is in such convoluted terms that I can't understand it.

Reply to
lotax

section 7502 refers to POSTMARKS: "the date of the United States postmark stamped on the cover in which such return, claim, statement, or other document, or payment, is mailed"

not a payment receipt date. Hmm.

Reply to
taxed and spent

I think the statute is confusing because there is the statute of limitations for filing a claim, and then there is the lookback period to determine how much, if any, tax paid is subject to a claim for refund.

There WAS a tax return filed, so there is a three year statute of limitations from the date the tax return was filed to file a claim for refund. But the lookback period is, as you have stated, limited to 2 years from the date the tax was paid, so he can file a claim for refund, but unless taxes were paid within two years from the filing date, no refund.

that is the wisest statement to come out of this thread. Thanks.

Reply to
taxed and spent

correction: change two years to 3.5 years. I think. :)

Reply to
taxed and spent

There is some dispute, but consensus seems to be that the "mailing rule" doesn't apply to amended returns. In other words, the IRS has to _receive_ the 1040X by 10/15/14 in order for the return to be valid. (You could still get a refund against anything paid in the two years prior to receipt.)

Artur Rubin CRTP in Brea, CA

Reply to
Arthur Rubin

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