Bad credit, why?

This is standard UK practice. Financial insttitutions are very secretive about revaling how they arrive at the credit score. They claim this is because if the scoring sytem were known people would know how to make fraudulent applications. I have to say I can see their point.

Experian are one of, if not the biggest, credit reference agencies in the UK. The 2 fee is the standard charge set by law.

The fee is non refundable.

Experian only collate data about individuals but do not actually produce credit scores. One of the factors is the Electoral Register. I would suggest getting your employer to talk to your bank. Even better if you use the same bank as your employer since they may be ablke to bring influemce to bear.

Scripsit "Peter Crosland"

Well, I am not asking to see the scores themselves, but how am I supposed to know "information that we did not take into account", when I'm not even told which information was USED in the calculation? They can keep the calculation *itself* as secret as they want, but this way I am completely unable to find out whether they have somehow been using wrong data.

How am I supposed to put things right when I have no way of finding out what is wrong in the first place?

I.e. it's a tax?

So basically I have to *pay* to get them to stop telling whatever lies they are telling to the bank about me? What kind of racket is that?

Sure. But why are they not required to tell me about the raw data they collate. How am I supposed to contest a registration if I'm not being told it exists? How can they be allowed to pass on a registration to the bank when I have not yet been given the opportunity to contest it?

They have no evidence that whomever claimed to them that I owe them money is right. In fact, I *know* that their informant is wrong: I

Fraud, most probably, though this usually applies most often to nationals from certain African and Eastern European/Former USSR states.

Did you ask for a 'debit card'? Without wishing to patronise, a debit card will take the money straight from the current account it's attached to but will not provide you with any of the protections given in the Consumer Credit Act. It's also a bit unpleasant to use for subscriptions and the like as there's no way of terminating the withdrawals if the vendor doesn't stop taking them.

As a foreign national, you'll presumably have a big black mark on your UK credit record for not being on the electoral register. Each credit reference agency (Experian and Equifax are the main ones in the UK) will have their own scoring system, but essentially, until they can a) verify your identity and b) verify that you get bills and pay them, they won't have much they can say about you - good or bad!

Possibly, if you make sure they understand that as a foreign national, you won't have as complete a credit record as someone who has lived in the UK all their life. It's certainly worth a walk along the high street.

That may well be the Data Protection Act doing its job; preventing organisations parties from passing on personal information about you to third parties without your explicit consent.

Either that, or they're just being sniffy about it because /they/ paid for the credit check, not you.

A nominal charge for administration costs is allowed for in UK Data Protection legislation (to protect organisations from multiple nuisance requests). There's no black-and-white limit on what an organisation can charge (though it does need to be 'fair'). With that in mind, £2 is quite reasonable, I think. A quick google indicates some organisations charge £6, £10, or even £80 to look for and supply any information they have on you.

If any of the information is wrong, then the DPA insists that they update it with correct information at no cost to you. If this doesn't happen, contact the Data Protection Commissioner.

Interesting question. ;-)

They are an established credit reference agency that have many reputable clients.

The DPA says they can.

Probably not.

In the UK, you will have signed something for your bank to allow them to perform credit checks. That, and the provisions I've outlined above, are about as far as it goes. Data Protection is an EU "rule", but the specifics of the legislation are left to individual member states, as long as they satisfy the relevant EU directive(s).

HTH, Alex.

Will they not give you a debit card or would that not suit you?

I think that this is BA's attempt to enforce a 'local sale only' rule (they did the reverse to me buying a ticket in germany), but as the EU have told airlines to stop this practice they might be better now.

What you need is a Debit card. If it is a Visa DB then you should be able to use it online just like a Credit card.

They charge 2 pounds because that is the maximum by law that they are allowed to charge. I doubt that they see it is worth

nope

The Credit checking companies are developing a system whereby you are informed (by SMS) each time your credit files is accessed/changed. They see this as a profit centre and will charge a monthly fee for this 'service' which they are marketing as a way of stopping the punter being caught by an identity theft. They calculate that there will be enough mugs, um customers willing to pay 10 quid a month for this debatable service and the rest of us will ask "is this a scam?"

tim

What's the point of its being an *international* credit card, then?

No. The webshops I want to pay money to require a 'credit card' - usually offering a selection of Visa, Master/Eurocard, plus sometimes Diners Club and/or American Express. So it's one of those I need.

That's what my current Danish Visa card does, too.

If they can be used to draw money from my account without my consent (or, equivalently, if there is no way of protesting that I did not give consent), then it's certainly not what I'm looking for.

Since, as an EU citizen, I'm supposed to be able to vote in local elections, I assume that I must be on it. (I am certainly known to the office that keeps the register, because they wrote to me to ask whether I wanted to vote for the European Parliament in the UK rather than in Denmark). But the bank refuses to tell me whether or not the electoral register is the problem.

I also recently found out that the Inland Revenue were apparently unaware that I exist (even though when I arrived I went to the tax office to ask how to register as a taxpayer and was told that my employer would take care of that). Again this may or may not have mattered, but again the bank is not telling me.

Um, they shouldn't have *anything* to say about me. As I said, I have never defaulted on any debt, so I *should* not have any record at a credit reference agency. If I have any record, there is nothing but lies for it to contain.

Yes, I do get bills, but as long as I pay them the credit reference agency will never hear about them. Are you suggesting that I get into arrears just so that the credit reference agency will hear about me, and that I only then demonstrate that I can also get *out* of arrears?

Surely *I* am not a "third party" as regards my own personal (mis)information?

At the moment it's *them* being a nuisance, if they tell banks that I have been defaulting on debts.

I think it is quite UNreasonable to charge *anything* for allowing me to correct the misinformation they are aparrently spreading.

If I have to pay £2 to even *learn* that they have wrong information, then it's not "at no cost", is it?

But it seems their main business is extorting £2's from innocent consumers that have never had any business with them.

I.e., there is no protection at all against the credit reference agency telling lies about me, unless I give in to their racket?

Sure. I was under the (apparently wrong) impression that the relevant directive said that credit reference agencies shall notify their victims about default information entering their databases, such that the victim has a chance to protest.

Scripsit "Blackthorn"

Well, I walked into the bank branch and said something like "I'd like to have a credit card attached to my account such that I can pay for things online". Then the clerk gave me a form and said: "Please fill out this". Which I did, and handed it back and waited.

The rejection letter I got later did not suggest any alternative arrangements. If necessary, I would have been able (and perhaps willing) to put up 100% of the credit limit - say, £1000 - as a cash security deposit, but the bank never suggested any such alternative possibilities.

I ahve already suggested a course of action that you might take.

No it is NOT a tax! The fee has been at that level for some years.

You would ahve to ask the government that. I am not responsible for the rules. All I have tried to do is explain what the situation is.

How am I supposed to contest a registration if I'm not being

You have not specified what information you believe is wrong because you have not asked Experian for it. If, and when, you do then you have the opportunity to correct the entry. I suggest you calm down and take look here

Probably best to ask the vendors you deal with. If you don't like their policy, take your money elsewhere to someone that'll take it gratefully. ;-)

I've never been in a situation where a UK vendor would take a UK credit card, but not a UK debit card. The debit card should actually be easier for a vendor to accept, as they know they won't get charged back by the bank if you dispute a transaction.

You need to give consent, initially, at least. The problem comes with rolling subscriptions (e.g. an internet account) when you try to cancel it. If the vendor is a bit crap (or fraudulent, even) they may continue to take money afterwards. If this happens, you'll need to take it up directly with the vendor; your bank probably won't get involved (unlike the situation if you pay with a credit card).

You'll need to check your credit reference. If it doesn't say you're on the register, then it's fair to assume that the bank regards it as a problem. If it does, look elsewhere for problems.

The IR has been completely confused every time I need to speak with them. I fill in their silly forms as best I can from time to time, then a few months later get an arbitrary decision about who owes whom money. A year or two later, it goes back the other way.

If your credit record is empty, that'll almost certainly be a problem; no information and the bank can't tell if you're a good or a bad risk, so they'll assume bad.

When I was 18 I had a plan to emigrate to the US eventually, so I got a credit card as soon as possible and started spending and paying back regularly in order to build up a solid credit history (i.e. getting bills and paying them).

I'm not sure that's the case. If you have utility bills, then there's usually some credit period implicit in the bill. As long as you pay before the deadline, I think it all adds (positively) to your record. UK credit cards, store cards and mortgages are best for this purpose, though, AFAIK.

No! That'll just make things worse.

Just take credit if you can get it (e.g. an interest free deal on a piece of furniture), then pay it back, on time. This demonstrates to the banks that you're a responsible credit user who they can trust to pay them back.

I would hope not, but there have been some cases of organisations interpreting the legislation in the most bloody-minded ways possible.

At a guess, they're probably telling the bank that they know little to nothing about you. The bank is then deciding not to take the risk.

They won't charge anything for you to correct the information.

The charge is to handle admin costs for searching and sending the information to you. I'd be surprised if £2 even covers it. Really. And I don't even have any reason to defend credit reference agencies; I'm just a punter, like you.

See above.

No, their main business is providing credit references on individuals and businesses to other businesses. Equifax also handles 'HPI' checks on used cars, so they actually provide useful services to people like you and I.

The usual causes for an inaccurate credit reference are either a) they've got the wrong Henning Makholm (unlikely, that's not a common name over here!) or b) they think you're part of a blacklisted family that used to live at one of the UK addresses you've also lived at. When I've moved to a new address, I've always added "I have no relation with any person currently or formerly resident at this address" just in case.

As a security professional, I actually think the Danish law is better for individuals and wish it was that way here. But it 'ain't, so we've got to make the best of what we've got.

HTH, Alex.

credit card over the last couple of years. I would be surprised if OP was offered anything other than cashpoint card or equivalent. Eric

Scripsit "tim"

Hm, perhaps. I think I fail to see what would be the airline's business interest in having such a rule. But then again I generally fail to see *any* sense, business or otherwise, in most full-service airlines' fare policies.

Yes, that's what I have from my Danish bank - an ordinary Visa that draws money from my current account as soon as I use it.

If there are UK banks that do offer debit versions of Visa, it seems that I really should investigate changing supplier. But which are those? I just did a quick walk of the web, and found

bank loan-based card debit card ------------------------------------------------------ Bank of Scotland Visa not specified ditto, Royal - Visa Switch HSBC Visa/Mastercard Maestro Lloyds TSB Mastercard not available? Clydesdale Bank Mastercard Switch+Maestro Nationwide Visa Delta

I don't remeber ever seeing either "Switch", "Maestro" or "Delta" in the card type drop-down of a web payment form. I have seen "Maestro" on foreign ATMs, but that only solves half of my needs.

Scripsit "Peter Crosland"

I have not asked Experian because they demand money before they will answer. But *no matter what* they have been telling the bank, it will be wrong. I repeat that I have never defaulted on any debt.

I think you need to chill.

Barclays do a Visa Delta debit card. I have used it online many times. I am sure Delta comes up as an option (maybe as a sub-option after you have selected Visa?).

I see from their website that they offer an account under "Destination UK", available to Johnny Foreigner (that's you) on an annual salary of

Henning - it's conceivable that your credit check failed because they had no/little information on you at all - as opposed to there being bad stuff there.

Chicken and egg situation because, if that was the case, there is now an additional piece of info on your record - that you've been refused credit.....

Pay the £2 and find out. Experian are a legit organisation. They, and their competitors Equifax, pretty much make up all the credit checking in the UK.

Neil Pike Protech Computing Ltd (Please post ALL replies to the newsgroup only unless indicated otherwise)

Hm, perhaps it's just me, but the names of debet cards that came up when I consulted a number of bank websites were not ones I recognised from my previous online experience. Perhaps I just shop in the wrong places, or have really bad memory.

BTW, I am not completely disinterested in non-UK vendors. I can use my Danish Visa for them, but at the cost of more exchange overhead.

Hm, I'm still having difficulty with this. Does it means that every consent I give will automatically, as far as the bank is concerned, cover an unlimited number of future transactions?

Huh? How can "we don't know of anybody who has lost money on this guy" be worse than "these of our cliens have lost such-and-such on this guy"?

Are we somehow talking at cross purposes? I have assumed that "credit reference agency" is equivalent to a Danish "kreditoplysningsbureau". That means a business [1] to which my creditors can report me if I default on a debt. The reports will be shared with the agency's other clients once I have had a (statutory) chance to contest it. The agency is forbidden by law from collecting or processing information about debts that I repay according to schedule.

Is it something completely different in the UK?

Under the system above, which I grew up with, information about the debt is required to be erased as soon as I repay it. A positive record means an empty one.

Wow! I seem to have migrated to looking-glass land - perhaps it should have given me a hint that you drive in the wrong side of the roads :-). Back home, economic virtue meant: "Don't borrow. Don't accept credit. Save up before you buy, and then pay cash". (And a loan was something you could get from a bank if you could demonstrate to their satisfaction that you had no need of it).

Hm. A second-class stamp is 21p, and computerized printing and enveloping cannot be that expensive when done in bulk. Well, I can see that finding which information to print might take some human intervention, given that personal numbers do not seem to have been invented here.

Scripsit "Martin"

OK, thanks.

(But, um, weren't Barclays the ones who crashed and burned spectacularly about a decade ago? No, heavy googling reveals that the crash was called BarINGs. Almost right.)

I'll keep that in mind, but it's only available in London and I'm in Edinburgh. I think I will try something more local first... (Also, the deal you're referring to seems to be aimed at people who wear suits and ties more often than I do).

Try to understand what Peter is telling you. Experian provide background and financial information to the bank, who then do their credit scoring. Nobody said you defaulted on any loan, you just may have no record here and fail the test on that basis. If you are not on the electoral roll, and have never made any credit applications, you will not fit the norm.

As a private company, Experian could deny you access to your file or charge a huge fee. The government made them provide you with it for a fixed fee of

1. Considering the costs probably involved, this is cheap. It's not a rip-off.

Pay the 2, find out what is known about you and speak to the bank again.

John

That's a debit card, isn't it? I pay for (minor) stuff online with a Smile Visa debit card quite a lot.

I applied for a Visa credit card from the Leeds Building Society, a good while back. I was turned down. I phoned them up to ask, since they'd turned me down, what I ought to do with a mortgage, my personal savings account and a joint account with my partner all with Leeds BS, if I couldn't have a Visa card from them. It turned out that someone had miskeyed `years with current employer' from the form I'd filled in as 0 rather than the 5 I'd written, and I'd failed on that.

Sometimes, these things happen for stupid reasons.