Barclays No Contact Cards

Yes, I've got a Barclaycard with that feature. The card was issued as a replacement for my Morgan Stanley card when Barclays took over the card business from MS. I don't trust the technology and, because I've got cards from other suppliers which *don't* do that, I never carry the Barclaycard with me - but simply use it for on-line transactions in order to get the cash-back.

However, now that they've changed the cash-back rules, I won't even use it for that in future and will cancel it as soon as all outstanding bills have been paid.

Surely the technology has been very thoroughly tested via the Oystercard system on the London tubes? I used it years ago in Lisbon for the metro and trams and buses without a problem. I would have thought it was going to be the next really big thing in money transactions - unless it's the mobile phone "cash card" system that catches on first, but I rather doubt that. I'm looking forward to getting one - but Amex will probably be last to the market as usual.

The impression I got from the R4 programme is that it is not a stored value system, so the concern is that there would be an unlimited liabilty if the card were stolen. Barclays were saying that it would, according to a secret algorithm, occasionally challenge for a PIN, and that given the low transaction limit, they would normally give the benefit of the doubt when fraudulent use was alleged.

The other difference is that it works from 3 feet away from a terminal (according to the adverts on TV) so money can be charged to your account rather without you noticing.

The technology goes back even before Oyster cards were introduced in the U.K.

I know that "Octopus" cards were in use in Hong Kong at least as far back as 1998, and almost everyone carries one there these days. They can be used on just about every type of public transport system there, as well as in places like McDonalds and other stores.

Chris

But they too are stored value cards (or at least that's how the one I bought on a trip earlier this year worked) and so cannot run up the kind of charges the R4 programme discussed. Also I thought Octopus (and the Tokyo equivalents) were like Oyster cards in requiring a closer "swipe than the Barclaycard etc

Yeah, right. What I heard was that the onus would be on the cardholder to provide evidence that the card was used by someone else. It's quite hard to prove that you didn't buy something - no-one has invented the anti-receipt yet. And 3 or 4 x £15 would be a significant loss for many people.

Colin McKenzie

I would have cancelled my card write away if I had been told that. The credit card market is very competitive and I'm sure many other banks would be glad of her business.

Is that really the case? Coupled with the non-contact feature there must be a significant risk. For example what's to stop a dishonest cafe owner standing in the doorway and billing anyone who walks past for a large coffee?

I rather suspect that is a use of advertising executive's licence

If that is the case, then it certainly would seem to pose a bigger risk than I first thought.

This was first introduced as the Mondex card in 1995. This failed to take off because the banks greedily thought that people were going to be prepared to pay extar to use a system that saved the banks money AND placed all of the risk of loss with the customer.

tim

In message , Colin McKenzie writes

One disturbing attitude from Barclays was that a certain amount of fraud was "acceptable", presumably because all the customers effectively share in reimbursing the bank!

In message , Gareth writes

Apparently other banks are considering introducing the idea. If it's a debit card, where do we go? I wonder whether a flood of pre-emptive emails/letters would be a good idea, I don't want a PIN-less card forced on me, even with the £15 limit.

I used to have a Mondex card, but I don't think it was contactless as the Oyster/Octopus cards are. No signature or PIN was required, but I seem to remember you used to have to briefly insert it into some kind of card reader.

Chris

I think they require much closer proximity than 3 feet to work. More like 3 inches in my experience. Octopus cards are stored value, but have the option of being set up to auto-debit a linked credit card once the value falls below a certain value.

Chris

Most companies, not just the banks, would take a similar view. Shops will find a certain amount of shoplifting "acceptable". You can never eliminate these things completely so you have to balance the losses against the cost of reducing them further.

Chris

That will be the limit for standard hardware but it should be straightforward to increase the range using higher field strength to power the card and an aerial with gain for the communications. RF passports have been read at 10m using special equipment.

Greed will no doubt prove to be the mother-in-law of invention.

Exactly. Many years ago, I was at a lecture on retail security and was horrified to find out that the recommendation was to ignore the customers to a large extent, and aim the security cameras at the checkout area only. Apparently most of the "shrinkage" as they euphemistically called it, was perpetrated by, or with the connivance of, the shop staff.