CCTV cameras pointing directly at a PIN terminal

Hi everyone, I've noticed a CCTV camera in a public building that has got me wondering. There are a number of chip and pin terminals used for the sale of items, and one of these pin pads is positioned to give a CCTV camera mounted in the building a perfect view of the pin as it is being entered. The layout of the building is such that the person entering their pin will stand to the right of the pad to block the view of anyone else present, but this gives the CCTV camera a perfect view of the pin.

I seem to remember seeing someone mention that this was expressly forbidden under the terms of using chip and pin - can anyone shed any light on this for me please?

Thanks!

"Simon Finnigan" wrote

Where is it positioned to be able to see

*underneath* the persons other hand, that is covering the pad as they enter their PIN?

Don't be silly. If they covered the pad with their hand, they wouldn't be able to find the right keys to press, so they are expected only to shield the pad from side views.

"Ronald Raygun" wrote

Rubbish - don't be daft!

(1) A CCTV is normally on the ceiling; thus even if the second hand was 6 inches above the pad, the CCTV could be blocked but the user (standing alongside rather than 8 feet above) would still be able to see the keys;

(2) Even if the 2nd hand was only just over the pad, only giving enough room for the 1st hand, then the bump on the 5 key would allow the user to "feel" which keys were which;

(3) How do you think blind people cope with the PIN-pads?!

So how do you block from the sides and above with only one hand?

Ah, so because an individual adapted to the state can do it, everyone can right? I think you need to understand a bit more about different abilities in people.

Jim.

"Jim Ley" wrote

No need, apparently! The OP suggested: "the person entering their pin will stand to the right of the pad to block the view of anyone else present", which just leaves the CCTV to be blocked - no need for any further blocking (according to OP).

"Jim Ley" wrote

Are you serious? Come on - what visually-dependent person has never felt their way around in the dark?

There are ten digit keys, with the middle one being able to be recognised by touch alone. All keypads are in the same digit-order, and even if you hadn't known that beforehand you can look at the keypad before covering it...

Afraid I am... You've got a very narrow idea on peoples abilities, you can obviously comprehend blindness but fail to comprehend that there are other limitations on what people can do.

Jim.

"Jim Ley" wrote

If someone really is unable to safely enter the PIN, due to their own limitations, then they should speak to the card provider about alternatives (eg C+Sig).

What proportion of the population do you think cannot feel about in the dark?

No, but it isn't a condition of the C&P system that you use your other hand to shield the pad as you enter your pin - that would exclude (to name the first example that springs to mind) people who had had one hand amputated. The question asked was regarding the CCTV camera pointing at the pin pad in the first place. What people choose to do to shield their pins isn't relevant here, it is the rules regarding the C&P scheme I'm interested in.

thanks.

Have a look at the photo in the following article:

$15142749.htm Have a look at the Pin Entry Devices (PED) in shops - and ask yourself how much privacy do the offer - not a lot, in fact hardly any of them offer any sort of privacy at all. Next time your in the Post Office compare their PEDs with those of major retailers.

I cover the keys in such a way that every angle is covered, and manage to hit the right ones.

Anyway, then cameras are there to get a glimpse of the signatures people add to the receipts, aren't they?

$15142749.htm >

The pin entry unit in the picture in question could be position (for example) under a table to keep the PIN hidden. I didn't ask wheterh other pin terminals offered any kind of privacy, I specifically asked about the legality of a CCTV camera pointing at the PIN pad, and the chip & pin rules on the matter.

Does anyone have an actual answer to the original question - this is the third reply now that has answered an unrelated question.

Apologies, just trying to put another aspect of personal safety and PIN security over:

The Chip and PIN website provides the following information to retailers: re CCTV:

Be discreet PIN numbers are secret and should remain so! The new PIN pads found at checkout counters have in-built privacy shields to help ensure this, but you need to make sure your CCTV cameras cannot see the PIN being entered. Staff can help as well by being discreet and not looking at customers when they key in their PIN. Never let a customer tell you their PIN - even if they want to.

So, not very re-assuring.