Declined...

Sounds like a problem with the authorisation process somewhere between the train and Nationwide. I've sometimes had my card declined when purchasing items online but the card issuer has denied declining, or even having received an authorisation request from the merchant concerned.

Chris

At least twice a week I get a John Lewis Mastercard refused on the on train chip and pin. Nothing wrong with the card in all cases. I've email complaints to Northern a couple of times, no response. Thankfully I've been one of the few regular commuters from Darnall for the last five years and the crews know me and let me buy when I get into Sheffield.

The next time it happens, stand your ground, insist it's a fault with the machine and demand to be allowed to purchase in a ticket office (i.e. at your destination) where the ticket issuing machines work.

Regards RW

AIUI, the on-train machines don't do authorisation with the bank. The likely situation is that your chip is either getting dirty or damaged, but isn't bad enough yet for it to fail all the time.

Neil

My understanding (so take with a large pinch of salt!) is that C&P cards maintain a count of the number of times they've been used for an off-line transaction since the last on-line authorisation. If this reaches a limit, which I believe is quite low (eg 4), then any subsequent off-line use above a floor limit results in a decline. I'm not sure if the floor limit is card or merchant based, but possibly the latter. Once the card has been used on-line again the count is reset.

So you could successfully use your card repeatedly for low value off-line transactions, but an attempt to use for a higher value transaction would be declined until the card's off-line use count could be reset.

There may be other mechanisms involved as well - eg the amount of time elapsed since the last on-line authorisation.

Mike

Probably a problem with the Chip and Pin device, they aren't exactly know for being relilable.

This is a frequent problem and the usual answer is to detatch pin device and return it to knackered pile and swipe as previously

We had a swipe and no sig, no pin the other day. We stood around looking shocked for a little while. Is this common?

My visa got spat the other day for an online purchase but if you read my verified by visa post it's all in there. The best bit was having some free advice from the bank "why not pay for it on your debit card and then pay off the amount onto your credit card"

At least twice in the last year there's been a major problem with visa at the local supermarket. You could tell something was seriously wrong not just by the queues but by the staff running round doing the cards manually.

What, swipe and sig, or looking shocked?

If the former, there are still some out in the wild - certainly many foreign cards in my experience still have to be done this way. Make sure they're (the cards) signed first though - some nationalities and banks don't seem to have to sign the back of the card as they have other signed photo ID, whereas usually in this country we didn't ask for that and only relied on the scrawl on the back of the card.

Stephan

In message , at 09:34:21 on Sun, 11 Nov 2007, Mogga remarked:

Generally, or just on trains?

I was a bit shocked recently to find a Tesco petrol pump (in Chelmsford, so not a a particularly way-out place) that just took my card and let me fill up without a PIN. Airport carpark machines are also commonly not PIN-enabled.

Clean the chip pad....but be aware the chips can fail.

It is for One Colchester and Clacton machines. There are so few pin pads which work, if staff refused to accept non pin Credit/Debit card transactions very few transactions would be done

If you commute regularly why not get a season ticket? Problem solved!

There's a good chance that all suggestions are completely wrong in your case and you may never find out. That is the nature of technology, especially when it is the interface between 2 different systems. It's a bit like why a VPN is not compatible with some modems... don't go there,just buy 20 different modems until one is found that works. With technology, many 'experts' are really bad at suggesting the likely root causes, as they rely on textbook/stock answers more than real experience.

If you want Nationwide to take you request seriously you MUST explain you will take them to the FOS. This is typically the ONLY way a bank/BS will make the slightest effort. This will give them a financial incentive, although to be fair it maybe nothing to do with Nationwide.

But at least it can be quite amusing to see how their attitude changes when you do this.

Regularly does not mean sufficiently frequently.

Tony

Tesco have had such pumps for many years. They also have a forecourt covered with cameras filming your actions. I expect Tesco are carrying the risk of any frauds.

- Nigel

Sorry, having re-read, swipe and no sig, no pin is *very* unusual

In message , at 11:19:08 on Sun,

I know, I'm just surprised they haven't converted them to C&P yet.

That's more for people "making off without paying", which is impossible at one of the pre-pay-by-CC pumps, anyway!

It's possible that the pumps are checking the cards used, against a list of lost/stolen ones. But that doesn't help identify cloned cards.

All C&P cards are subject to various limitations and requirements as far as transaction authorisation is concerned. This is built into the Chip so that your card determines whether it needs authorisation to complete the transaction. The banks will not tell you how your card is set up, else you could work out how to circumvent the requirements. Hence, when you ask, you are simply told that there is nothing wrong with the card - there isn't, it's doing exactly what it's supposed to do!

All that the entry of the PIN does is to confirm that it is the proper cardholder making the purchase.

On-line authorisation is required in various situations, no matter how good your record with the card company. At worst, for a customer with a bad record, on-line authorisation will be required for all transactions. Even a good customer will be put through the authorisation process in certain circumstances.

Avantix Mobile does not handle on-line authorisation so as soon as a card asks for authorisation it aborts the transaction. Other ticket machines are dependent on the comms links to the card authoriser working correctly. Any failure of the TOC's wide or local area networks could mean that this isn't the case. Similarly, high levels of usage could create a bottleneck in the process which causes transactions to time out.

If regularly means once a week, then a season ticket is no use.

What would be the legal situation if they advertised that they accepted cards but were unable to accept yours because it needed authorisation (for routine reasons rather than because you had a bad credit rating) and you had no other means of paying? Would you be be deemed to have failed to pay, and be liable for a penalty and/or non-discounted fare, or would you just be required to pay at your destination where they could do online authentication?