Chip & Pin @ Tescos

I had the same about 4 years ago in the US - fast food restaurant simply swiped the card and that was it.

Struck me as a potential for fraud at the time, but given the value...

Perhaps if the value is above a certain amount it needs to be checked manually or otherwise authorised ?

It's up to the retailer to decide whether or not they want to require chip and pin for their transactions. Some retailers, such as Maplin still haven't implemented it in their stores at all. If they don't require chip and pin, then they, rather than the bank, will be liable for any fraudulent transactions.

I know that at M&S before chip and pin came in, you could do that at the self service checkouts. If you asked for cashback, the machine would ask for a member of staff to check the signature before it would give you the money. Perhaps it would do that for high value transactions as well.

I would imagine that it is Tesco that is taking the risk here - if you challenge an item on your statement and your bank cannot find any evidence of a PIN or signature then I don't expect you will have too much trouble getting your money back (I hope you wouldn't anyway). Tesco have probably calculated that the cost savings due to the increased efficiency are worth the risks.

Was there a limit on the amount you can pay for at the self service counter?

The Tesco petrol station pay at pump system is similar but there is a limit of 60 quid. I would imagine that the increased throughput of the petrol station is worth the risk of the occasional loss of up to 60 pounds.

There, they have a photo of the car and in particular the number plate, so they have a good chance of being able to trace who bought the petrol.

This is the same as machines at train stations where you can pay by sticking your card in, but no pin number is asked for. I guess it works for smallish transactions, where the company using the machines doesn't mind taking a hit from people disputing transactions, or if the card is reported stolen.

If you spend above a certain amount of money on a card you'll probably trigger a request for a voice auth or manager approval. Also, all the self service parts of shops like Tescos and M&S seem to have people standing around watching fairly carefullly, although I've not really looked too closely recently as it always seemed quicker to shop the old fashioned way!

I am sure the point here is that the purchase is of an intangible item which has no sell on value if the card is stolen and hence isn't the sort of purchase that a thief would make (I suppose that it's theoretically possible that someone could stand in the station trying to tout such ticket but the risk of getting caught would be large).

If you are the Card holder and you claim that the ticket was bought fraudulently, then I suspect that you will be buying your train ticket using cash from then on.

tim

I have had to claim a charge back on train tickets a couple of times. One was when the machine took my money and didn't print me a ticket. Another was when it charged me twice for the same ticket.

On both occasions, I got my money back without too much trouble.

OK, but these are not fraudulent transactions.

tim

They've added PIN to all the train ticket machines I use regularly - no doubt there are still some not updated, but the train companies are rolling it out.

Neil Pike Protech Computing Ltd

At our local stations the machines have been updated to include PIN pads. I occasionally use one to buy a ticket for 1.30 and validate by PIN. I do wonder how much the rail co "makes" on my ticket. I assume it is a sort of "loss leader" with the expectation that more expensive tickets will be bought than cheap ones.

(Just an aside - my main grumble with the system is that when I go to the machine on the downline platform the first screen it gives of "popular destinations" is for stations upline. But at least it does take cards if I don't have the right change available.)

It would still be some trouble getting my money back. And I would have preferred to have some say in whether I get to run the risk of annoyance at least. Is there any way of ruining the mag strip on the back so that only the chip will work?

I didn't see a cost limit, but may not have looked hard enough. My shopping was about £25 in total, with the most expensive item being just a touch under £4.

Cheers,

Ross-c

"Jonathan Bryce" wrote

Not if the car is stolen! In other words, any thief stealing a car could head straight for the nearest Tesco filling station, and fill up for free...

"tim(not at home)" wrote

So what? A fraudster could easily make up the same story...

At 09:47:34 on 18/06/2006, snipped-for-privacy@wmin.ac.uk delighted uk.finance by announcing:

Good! Why do you think it should ask for a PIN with a mag stripe read?

No.

Potentially. And they will pick up the liability for any fraudulent transactions.

At 11:01:42 on 18/06/2006, Jonathan Bryce delighted uk.finance by announcing:

And in the case of the OP, they presumably have CCTV and/or photo of the purchaser.

At 14:03:44 on 18/06/2006, snipped-for-privacy@wmin.ac.uk delighted uk.finance by announcing:

Not really. Firstly, you've reported your card lost/stolen. Secondly, you just call your card issuer and tell them it's a dodgy transaction.

Yes. Of course, your card will then be useless in those cases where the transaction needs to fall back mag stripe. It will also be useless in those cases where the stripe is read first to determine whether the chip should be read.

At 14:00:36 on 18/06/2006, rob delighted uk.finance by announcing:

More than they would have done if it wasn't authorised by PIN. The banks have increased the fees for non-EMV transactions.

But if it was a criminal using my card, then a pair of glasses and a fake beard may make identification difficult enough so that the police wouldn't bother.

Cheers,

Ross-c