Chip and Pin - More secure for who?

Old style: mag stripe used to access the account. many places don't check the signature properly, so even if you can't take cash out of cashpoints people can still use stolen ones. if your money went missing it's trivial to check the signature used by crooks and prove that it wasn't the owner who used it.

new style: all done with pin numbers(eventually, once the dual mag strip and chip and pin has been reduced to just chip and pin). someone steals your card, or robs you at knifepoint and says `what's the pin`. i'm going to give him the pin rather than be murdered, thanks. does the bank take this as a breach of the `keep the pin secret` part of my contract and hold me accountable/responsible for any stolen money? if so then i think i'm better off with the old system, aren't i?

anyone one know the answer to this one?

Reply to
Fred Bloggs
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Good point! Have you tried asking your bank? It would be interesting to hear their reply.

Reply to
Peter Crosland

"Fred Bloggs" wrote

Why not just give the *wrong* pin?!

Reply to
Tim

So you get mugged and forced to divulge PIN. The muggers walk off and use your card, in meantime you call bank and police. Card is blocked. Your point being?

And lets face it - this simply does not happen regularly enough to be a genuine concern! Or to be precise, according to my card services division, there have been TWO such incidences in the past two years. No technology will stop this form of aggravated assault - the Chip and PIN system has been devised to combat card skimming/cloning - it is not the be-all and end-all solution to financial crime!!

MC

Reply to
Marcus Collie

Not sure, wouldn't it be /they/ using the card fraudulently? They'd have to be quick.

As for being better off with the old system, potentially every time you use your card somebody could be swiping it, that's what causes the majority of problems. The chances of fraud arising from muggings is probably quite small by comparison, I sure they've looked into the figures regarding cash point cards and worked this out.

Of course the consequence of making posh cars practically unstealable fuelled car-jacking, some gangs have already started targeting bank lobby's etc.

Az.

Reply to
Aztech

No, but it's not exactly a new problem - pins have been around for 30+ years since cashpoints were invented. I'd imagine muggers who got hold of a card with its pin are far more likely to take cash out of a cash machine than use it to do their monthly shop at Tesco's.

Reply to
Andy Pandy

The only time I can see being asked for a PIN by a mugger would be when they frog march you at knifepoint to a cash machine and demand the PIN there and then. I doubt any mugger would be enough of a "mug" to expect to be given the correct PIN "on trust" !

Reply to
Adrian Boliston

Sure they would, and then use their loyalty card to get their "Points"

DG

Reply to
Derek *

Better still would be a "duress" pin, as used by some alarm systems. Access will be allowed, but the authorities alerted. Probably a bit too much trouble for credit/debit cards, though.

Reply to
John Laird

"Adrian Boliston" wrote

Most cash machines appear to be in very "public" places - eg High Streets etc. Would many muggers really take the risk of producing a knife in a situation like that?

Reply to
Tim

Of course then Tesco might get suspicious of someone who kept buying carving knives, balaclavas and womens stockings - along with 100 cashback!

Reply to
Snowman

In any case C&P terminals aren't secure; it's easy to see what people are keying.

Reply to
Daytona

Sadly yes. In Glasgow it is all too common to be standing at the cash point on a busy street in broad daylight and hear the dreaded phrase "don't turn round just take out another ton."

Reply to
robert

And the literature gives no clues as how the card holder is supposed to recognise the difference between a genuine C&P terminal and a 'dummy' which has been set up to record the PIN. If a dishonest retailer (or employee) can copy the magnetic strip and clone a card tendered for payment and criminals can put a false card slot on bank cash machines, then I am sure it not beyond their ability to create a Chip and Pin terminal which records the PIN, and working in league with pick pockets later steal the card.

Reply to
Graham Murray

And again I stress, how common do you think that form of crime really is?!!

Prevention of armed assault with the intent of obtaining the PIN, in order to force the user to withdraw cash to give to said assailant is, thankfully, not what Chip&Pin is about, and also is a rare crime.

how often have you heard of this actually happening? As I said before, Barclays card services have encountered TWO incidences in TWO years - hardly a common crime. compared to (If I recall correctly) somewhere in the region of 6000 cloned cards being in circulation at any one time it pales into insignificance!

Get real!

MC

Reply to
Marcus Collie

I normally transfer money to my current account (from my high interest savings) as required (to keep within my 500 interest free o/d limit). If I'm planning to draw 20 I will transfer 20 prior to going to the cash machine, so I would need to ask the knifeman if I could borrow his GPRS enabled laptop so I can do that transfer!

Reply to
Adrian Boliston

How do you propose cloning a Chip? I would love you to explain how that is possible without the original chip?!

Chip and Pin will not prevent the "lebanese loop/pickpocket" scam.

C&P is not designed to eliminate all card crime, but should make cloning a crime of the past!

MC

Reply to
Marcus Collie

And your evidence for this is? Or is it just another urban myth?

Reply to
Peter Crosland

In message , Daytona writes

Not as easy as learning to copy a signature and very very hard to clone.

Reply to
john boyle

The banks seem toi be going to great lenghts to specifically make the point that cloning is almost impossible with current technology.

Reply to
john boyle

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