Credit Cards/Chip and Pin/ATM withdrawls

AFAIK all card issuers have the same rules. As for the risk it really is minute and unless you are negligent then you are not liable for any losses. The bottom line is that the C&P systems has reduced fraud significantly and that is in your interest just as much as everyonr else's. It seems, but I know of no case law yet, that refusal to issue a chip and signature card could be seen as a breach of the Disability Discrimination Act. Personally I would doubt it but in these days of PC gone made it could be. If you do have a C&S card you may well find it refused because retailers are liable for losses when a PIN is not used. Since you can remember, albeit with difficulty your debit card PIN then just change the CC PIN to be the same. As you probably use your CC more frequently you will find it easier the more you use it. The bottom line is that you are not going to stop C&P so the best thing is to accept it.

Peter Crosland

The risk of someone guessing the PIN is only 1 in 10000. Whilst the risk is small it's certainly not insignificant.

sponix

No. I've looked too. The cash limit is typically half the credit limit, IIUC.

Simply keep putting the wrong PIN in - easy if you shred the PIN notification before reading it. Keep asking for a chip and sig. Eventually they will give you a chip and sig card - I know, I have several.

Do it to one card but use a PIN with the other - but make very sure that the cards are from two totally different issuers..you may be surprised by how many cards are all run by the same outfits. Once I had one chip and sig card from a group, all my other cards from the same group have been replaced by new chip and sig without a quibble. I suspect that, if I had used a chip and PIN card successfully, this ploy would not have worked for any of my cards issued by the group as a whole.

I keep my chip and PIN card for the few places that won't take a chip and sig - like an increasing number of out of hours petrol stations. Plus it was useful for paying for things whilst I was playing the card game, above.

Incidently, you are being paranoid. Chip and PIN cards are perfectly safe and you should have no worries about using them. Millions of people do with no problems whatsover. Credit card crime greatly drops anywhere and everywhere that this system has been introduced (I have included the above to save other posters the bother..)

In addition, you get three attempts at entering your PIN so the odds of someone compromising your card drop to 1:3333.

Add to this the fact that people are told not to use obvious PINs such as '0000', '1234' etc and the odds fall even further.

sponix

And once a C&P card is locked you can unlock it by taking it to a cash machine, where you get yet further chances to guess it. Does anyone know if there's an upper limit to this number, or does the card eventually become unlockable?

Peter Crosland posted

No it isn't.

Even if he is negligent, he is not legally liable for any losses on his credit card. However the CC company would make things very difficult for him.

No it is not. It is massively, overwhelmingly more in the interests of the CC companies than it is in their customers'.

An extraordinarily dangerous thing to do, creating a single point of failure for both accounts

AIUI some CC companies do still offer chip and sig. I have two: Alliance and Leicester, and Amex.

The odds would only fall if guessers don't try such numbers. And if they don't, that would mean using an obvious PIN reduces the risk of its being guessed!

However it can take a great deal of time and hassle to get the matter resolved. Do they have to prove negiligance or it is up to you to prove that you are not negligant?

I know of the benefits of C&P. I'm sure I could find a way to remember the PIN. I manage it mostly with my debit card. I am not going to try to pretend I am disabled just to get the C&S card. This could have repercussions.

That's doesn't sound like a good idea to me. If a criminal somehow obtains one PIN he or she has them all.

I don't use my credit card very often in shops so I won't benefit from this. I'm not trying to stop C&P. I just want the option to disable the cash withdrawl feature. I don't see the need for a something that can only be used for fraud in my situation.

Mark.

Nothing is completely safe. Also I am not paranoid. Given that there are so many credit cards around and there must be many who never use them for cash withdrawl there will be cases where people are victims of such fraud. This will be hassle for the bank as well as the victim and some could so easily be prevented.

Mark.

Will things wind up the way car thefts have gone? Improved immobilisers and security systems mean you're less likely to walk back to your car to find it missing, but you're more likely to have your skull thumped and the thief just taking the keys/car from you.

If thieves really want your PIN, they'll threaten you with a cricket bat and ask for it.

Dunno if it works with Chip and Pin cards, but a strong magnet used to wipe the stripe on older style card. (Do cash machines continue to read the stripe, or do they now read the stripe?) If they still read the stripe, you could disable the card from a cashpoint machine point of view, whilst allowing Chip and Pin transactions. If you want to be even more paranoid, use 240v to spark the contacts on the chip as well, rendering the card only useable with the signature! ;-)

"George Woodbine" wrote

What will they get out of it if you refuse, and they wack you with the bat? That doesn't help them get the PIN, does it? ;-)

Of course they are perfectly safe. Strange thing is I have yet to witness one person using chip and pin follow the advice given here

Tell me all about it. I go for donkeys years with no problems with my cards and now I have £200 taken at an ATM supposedly on my cc. I have never used my card in an ATM except to set up the damn PIN in the first place. As you say, we should be allowed to disable this facility or make the cc company stand the loss.

Kevin

I'd be more worried about them wacking me with the bat *after* having got the PIN - typically by shoulder-surfing it in a supermarket. A few days without the loss of the card being reported would only be an advantage for them.

It's actually better than that, since several numbers are not allowed as PINs (try setting it to 1111, or 1234).

"Palindr?me" wrote

All the more reason not to tell them the PIN, if threatened!

"Palindr?me" wrote

Then make sure you cover the pad with your other hand when entering your PIN...

You are only liable for the loss if you were *negligent* with your PIN & card, such as "lending" it to a friend etc.